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SW-L  April 2010

SW-L April 2010

Subject:

Re: Need your help - can you view this video?

From:

Bill Reese <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages

Date:

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:18:37 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (392 lines)

You said it in a nutshell, Kim.  Potential.  Some of the signs I had to 
think about - it wasn't too obvious what the avatar was signing.  I had 
to keep in mind that it was probably simple, commonly used signs to 
limit the possibilities and increase my chances of understanding them.  
This won't due for an avatar that's expected to communicate proficiently.

It did highlight a few things about signing and what's not included in 
signwriting.  For instance, in "house" the hands in the downward 
movement continued to be rotated because the signwriting does not show 
any transition to a vertical orientation.  I know sometimes people sign 
it that way but if the standard way is vertical hands then how would the 
avatar know to rotate the hands?

The fingerspelling was very hard to read simply from the size of the 
hand.  The fact that the avatar did it to begin was was amazing - it 
just needs to be clearer.  Perhaps an inset showing the fingerspelling 
up close or in Sutton Fingerspelling Font or Sign Font would be useful.

Then there's the issue of beginning placement of the hands.  I think 
that was talked about before.  The sign for "same" I didn't get right 
for two reasons.  One, the signs began at the wrong place.  Two, it 
looked like the fingers crossed.  Those two things combined made me 
thing it was either "but" or "different."

And that brings up scale.  "But" is a smaller sign than than "different" 
but essentially signed similarly.  The avatar was signing all the signs 
in the same, large signing space.  Signwriting doesn't have a way of 
defining the size of signing space.  And I don't think it should, 
because an emphatic "but" can take up the same space as a conversational 
"different."  I would think, that literary constructs like  ""But!" he 
emphasized" could be replicated in Signwriting literature to indicate 
emphasis (or any other deviation from a standard, conversational 
concept).  Signwriting literature could open up a totally different way 
of writing sign that's based on communicating to the reader what the 
writer wants them to understand.   How would an avatar deal with this?   
When we read a book out load, we may read ""But!" he emphasized" but we 
simply say "But!" in an emphatic manner not ""But!" he emphasized."

Bill


On 4/30/2010 8:23 AM, Kimberley Shaw wrote:
> PS - I found the avatar, he belonged to a different thread.
> Spooky! But lots of potential.
> - Kim
>
> On 4/29/10, Kimberley Shaw<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>    
>> Hello all:
>> sorry to come late to this conversation! I've had limited access to
>> email on machines bigger than my phone lately.
>> The video on the signwriting.org front page of the guy signing from
>> the book of "John" is great! I like it, because I have always wished
>> that good ASL renditions of Jewish liturgy were more widely available
>> ... but have so far not have had very enthusiastic response from the
>> Jewish signing community. Yet. And this fellow is very clear in
>> explaining why it is important for Deafs to have written literature in
>> signed languages.
>> Kudos to him!
>> It gives me incentive to keep on with my own projects.
>> PS - wherever this "avatar" is, I don't know. Can somebody please explain?
>> Best,
>> Kim from Boston
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Kate<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>>      
>>> Hi Charles!
>>> Thank you very much for the feed back.
>>>
>>> 1) How do I make the avatar to perform a sign form the start start of
>>> each
>>> sign. This default position of the avatar is the hands on the waist when
>>> it
>>> signs it moves from the default position and performs the sign. Should
>>> there
>>> rather be a pause between the default and the end position? What do you
>>> suggest?
>>> 2) The orientation is wrong...thanks!
>>> 3) I thought its AUD, because the 'V' moves right,left,right.
>>> 4)Thanks for the correction, and It was supposed to be RV
>>>
>>> 've just double checked the fingerspelling, it turns out its actually
>>> Spanish not ASL!
>>> Many thanks for the feedback
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Charles Butler
>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>        
>>>> Having worked with avatar programs in Brazil before, I have a few
>>>> observations.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Avatars may have a default beginning setting, this one seems to have
>>>> one, but that default setting is not the start point of each sign.  Each
>>>> sign has a beginning and an end.  With this avatar, all signs start at
>>>> the
>>>> waist, not at the natural beginning of each sign.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Some orientations seemed to have been viewed backward.  This may be
>>>> because of a misunderstanding of avatars and expressive signwriting.
>>>> The
>>>> one sign I can rememer is understand.  The palm facing is toward the
>>>> writer,
>>>> not away from the writer.  The avatar signs away from the writer.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Unsure which fingerspelling system is being used.  A sign that says
>>>> AUD
>>>> is apparently AVD, which may be some other fingerspellings outfit, but
>>>> not
>>>> ASL.
>>>>
>>>> 4) The sign translated "ASL" reads as "RV" in ASL, so I'm not sure which
>>>> signed language is being produced.
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Kate<[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Sent: Wed, April 21, 2010 1:35:48 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Need your help - can you view this video?
>>>>
>>>> works very well...
>>>> I use Safari!
>>>> Kate
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Ingvild Roald<[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>          
>>>>> I can see the video clearly
>>>>>
>>>>> Ingvild
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:59:40 -0700
>>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Subject: Need your help - can you view this video?
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SignWriting List
>>>>>> April 20, 2010
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Everyone!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need your help. Can you view the video from YouTube that I just
>>>>>> posted on the front page of our web site?:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SignWriting Site
>>>>>> http://www.SignWriting.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the first time I have ever embedded a video from YouTube on a
>>>>>> web page, and it is in Flash, or SWF I guess...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never posted a video in Flash before, and DreamWeaver, the
>>>>>> program I use to do web design, keeps telling me that I have to do
>>>>>> several
>>>>>> things to make it visible on the new Internet Explorer...and I am
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> problems...it shows up on my Mac, but I am concerned maybe it will not
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> visible on a PC?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone use the latest version of Internet Explorer on Windows?
>>>>>> Because the Mac no longer uses Internet Explorer and I have no way to
>>>>>> test
>>>>>> it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The video is wonderful! A Deaf man, named Ed, from Michigan, who
>>>>>> attends the Deaf Church that Pastor Ron Dettloff directs, explains in
>>>>>> ASL
>>>>>> that he was born Deaf and that he learned a little SignWriting but
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> needs to learn more, and then he reads out loud in ASL from the book
>>>>>> written
>>>>>> in SignWriting...He does a great job and it is a good video - Thank
>>>>>> you, Ed
>>>>>> and Ron, for doing this for us, and giving us permission to post...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your feedback, everyone!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Val ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>          
>>>
>>>        
>>      
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