Hi Charles,

The symbols in the email are "0.7" in size.  I prepared the email using the SignWriting Image Server.  My development version of SWIS can produce both the cartesian and polar markups. 

Here's the raw polar markup:
B���330°16���129°14  B���169°21���252°6���80°11���19°21

Once I can get a font file created, the above markup will show the actual symbols rather than the unknown code point boxes.

To fake it, I deleted the unknown code point boxes so I could replace them with the symbol graphics.

In SWIS, I used the Symbols page.  I changed the size to ".7" and press view.  Then I dragged the symbols to the desktop.  Then from the desktop into the email.


Charles Butler wrote:
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Excellent.  This is very easy to follow.  Now how do you manage to get the signs into your write-up the same size as Roman letters?  That's the kind of interaction we need for the proposed SignTyp presentation.  This seems to be parsed with the graphic being dropped in as easily as a Roman alphabet and Arabic numeral.  


From: Steve Slevinski <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 9:14:40 AM
Subject: Re: Binary SignWriting revision 3 update

Hi Charles,

The markup for polar works the same as the cartesian.  Each sign is written on its own canvas (or grid).  Each canvas has a defined center.  The relative position of the symbols to each other is determined by the writer.  The position of the sign as a whole on its canvas is determined by centering rules.

Each markup will use 3 letters to represent lanes: L, B, and R.  L for a left lane sign box.  B for a middle lane sign box.  R for a right lane sign box.  Each of these letters signifies the start of a new canvas.  Consider the example I included:

B330°16129°14 B169°21252°680°1119°21

There are 2 signs, both in the middle lane.  To use different lanes, change the B's for L's or R's.  Such as...

L330°16129°14 R169°21252°680°1119°21

The first sign is now in the left lane.  The second sign is now in the right lane.

Both polar and cartesian coordinates are equivalent forms and represent the exact same data from a different point of view. 

In my opinion, the cartesian markup is much easier to use.  The polar markup requires the use of trigonometric functions and the Pythagorean theorem.

It will take experimentation to determine if one markup is more meaningful or useful as a whole.


Charles Butler wrote:
But how would one show lanes in a polar writing.  If one needs multiple lanes to show a sign, say in the name sign Carmen Miranda, is it the center of the sign or the center of the sign component that one is showing.  Just trying to make sure I understand cartesian vs polar.  Is this is terms of the whole map of the objects in a sign, or each individual sign in a defined grid.  Is this like Hangul in which a construction method is being used to show where all the components are in relation to each other, or in relation to an invisible box.  


From: Ingvild Roald <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 5:32:49 AM
Subject: Re: Binary SignWriting revision 3 update

Would not the polar version make it easier to change size - just one parameter to change (distance), not all as in Cartesian?



Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:06:07 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Binary SignWriting revision 3 update
To: [log in to unmask]

Hi Adam,

Unfortunately, it's a 2 step process right now.

The first page converts BSW 2008 to BSW 2010:

The second page converts BSW 2010 to BSW 3:

Section 4 of the conversion document links to both pages.

Speaking of conversions, building on the idea of encoding the symbols, but not the layout, I've created 2 different markups that will be able to use my proposed Unicode implementation.  One Cartesian and the other Polar.  These markups can be created from any SignPuddle data. 

If we consider "Hello world." in ASL...

The Cartesian markup uses XY coordinates, where the coordinates represent the top,left of the symbol position.

SignWriting Cartesian Markup
B-19,-293,-11 B-11,12-18,-106,-7-2,-30

The Polar markup uses degrees and distance from the center of the sign, where the coordinates represent the center of the symbol position.  12 o'clock is 0° and increases clockwise.  So 3 o'clock is 90°, 6 o'clock is 180, and 9 o'clock is 270.  It may be very interesting to analyze the Polar markup.

SignWriting Polar Markup
B330°16129°14 B169°21252°680°1119°21

Thought I'd share,