That will be the work for your Ph.D. I hope.   Well done Stuart!

Marie Alexander (from Malta)

On 5/10/2011 5:40 PM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:
[log in to unmask]" type="cite">Thanks for the questions. I have been travelling for work so I haven't had a chance to check responses to my email until now. :) I arrive home tonight. I will reply with answers to your questions and other questions in this thread.

Let me say this much and then I'll respond more specifically later. My goal for the thesis was to provide an analysis of the symbols based on the symbols themselves and then look for predictable rules that can help us develop rules that a computer can use to predict placement. Where possible, predicted placement can help us have more predictable spellings and less variations. I did want to talk more in detail about placement issues, but I did not have time because I needed to describe each symbol category in depth first. My last 2 chapters deal with placement questions. The research I was able to do gives me some ideas on how placement could be handled, but I would need more time to develop that.



On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Bill Reese <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Great!  I'm glad they're working together on it.  I hope great things come out of the collaboration.

I know I brought this up before but I'm wondering, Stuart, if a concept of relative coordinate systems was discussed in your thesis?   I did a quick scan so I'm not sure if it was.  What I mean by "relative" is a coordinate system that's related to a previous symbol in a sign according to that sign's signspelling sequence.  

The coordinate for the first symbol would be in absolute coordinates according to the signbox, then the second symbol would relate to the first symbol according to a coordinate system using a point of the first symbol as the origin. 

Doing it that way may allow establishing matrices of symbol pairing in a sign.   I would imagine this to be similar to "kerning" and possibly define distances according to the pairs rotation of not only themselves but to each other.  Similar to what you were saying about establishing minimum distances.

About the overlap of symbols that you mention.  I was wondering if it couldn't also be solved by a matrix of symbol pairing so that a particular matrix value would indicate overlap - say, a value of -1.   On the other hand, do you think it would be possible to create totally different symbols that are overlaps of two symbols?  I ask this as that's what's done in other languages when there's an overlap.  For instance, "æ" which looks like "a" and "e" overlapped but is it's own symbol.  I would hazard a guess that separate symbols are only possible when there's only a few.


On 5/9/2011 1:06 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
SignWriting List
May 9, 2011

Hello Bill -
Just want you to know that we have a group of Unicode-knowledgeable people working together on our SignWriting proposals that will be presented to the Unicode-related meetings over a period of years, and Steve and Stuart are both in the group, along with others as well - so we are all working together...The proposals have been separated into proposing the encoding of the symbols, or characters, first, (of the International SignWriting Alphabet 2010) and then once the symbols have been encoded, we will present a second proposal related to layout and symbol placement issues - so that second area is where different theories will be discussed until we can come up with a final decision for a second proposal - so we are taking this one step at at a time...

An exciting time for all of us - smile - 

Val ;-)


On May 9, 2011, at 8:56 AM, Bill Reese wrote:


Wow, that was a lot of work!  I do have one question.  How would the most recent work in Unicode and, more particularly, what Steve Slevinski has written to the list affect the portion where you talk about what may be needed for successful Unicode acceptance?   From what it appears, it's well on it's way to acceptance with what Steve and Michael Everson have done.


On 5/8/2011 1:02 AM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:
Hello, all! I know it's been a long time, no see. I wanted to let you know that I have completed my MA thesis on SignWriting. For those of you interested in reading it, you can download a PDF from the University website. Just so you know, the PDF itself is about 22MB. 

If you have any questions about it, just let me know.