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OK -here the path of the index is wider, including you and your friends

Ingvild 


> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 20:10:36 +0530
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Wahawafe - a multilingual translation project
> To: [log in to unmask]
> 
> Hi!
> Thank you very much for your translation! :-) but, could you please
> rewrite this using the inclusive form of we? Quite a few people have
> thought of aliens because of the line "from Earth". So, i have
> mentioned on my site that this project is only for humans and you
> should use the inclusive form. Sorry for the trouble!
> Thanks again! :)
> Nikhil.
> 
> On 09/08/2011, Ingvild Roald <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > As I suppose the sentence is something you could use if you were to meet
> > extraterrestrials, I have chosen to use the exclusive but extensive 'we',
> > and the Norwegian SL-sentence would translitterate something like 'humans we
> > yes, live Earth we yes', where the 'we' is 'all of us here, but not you'. I
> > am not a 'native' signer, and cannot guarantee that this would be the best
> > way of putting it in Norwegian SL, but I think it would do. The sign-text is
> > a screen dump. as I always have problems with the SignText in combination
> > with e-mail
> >
> > Ingvild
> > Roald, Norway
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 22:28:57 +0530
> >> From: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: Wahawafe - a multilingual translation project
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >> Hi! I don't claim that my sentence will not cause any problem in
> >> translation. I accept that languages are really different from one
> >> another to come up with an easily translatable and meaningful
> >> sentence. However, this sentence can be satisfactorily rendered in
> >> most languages, at least spoken ones. I don't have much idea of sign
> >> language grammars.
> >> You should use the version of "we", which includes the maximum number
> >> of people. If there is a difference between inclusive and exclusive
> >> "we", then use the inclusive one. Both the we's refer to the same
> >> group of people. If it's not possible to say the whole thing in one
> >> sentence, you can break this into two, by dropping the "and".
> >> Nikhil.
> >>
> >> On 31/07/2011, Trevor Jenkins <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> > On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Valerie Sutton
> >> > <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Nikhil needs the translations in written SIGN LANGUAGES, not spoken
> >> >> languages!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I am not an ASL expert, or I would do the translation myself in ASL. I
> >> >> actually do not how to sign that phrase in ASL, so that is why I was
> >> >> waiting
> >> >> for someone who knows ASL to do the translation for NIkhil in
> >> >> ASL...written
> >> >> in SignWriting.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > I'm in a similar situation with BSL. I'm increasing fluent in its use
> >> > but
> >> > not a native speaker. However, I am fluent in English yet I don't know
> >> > how
> >> > to understand the phrase:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> "We are humans and we are from Earth."
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > How many are the "we"s? English, plus I guess many (all?) of the spoken
> >> > languages given here as exemplars, the first person plural is
> >> > uncountable.
> >> > It would be possible to translate it into Swedish with "vi" and still
> >> > obscure the number of participants. In BSL, at least, the first person
> >> > plural is countable; up to four maybe five even 10. It is signed
> >> > differently
> >> > depending on the number of participants. For example, if "we" consists
> >> > of me
> >> > and my wife then I sign that slightly different from me, my wife, and
> >> > you
> >> > (Valerie), plus the physical proximity of the "we" one to another would
> >> > change the sign(s) needed. However these small groups are signed
> >> > entirely
> >> > differently from "we" as the subscribers to this list (if all of us
> >> > happened
> >> > to be assembled in one locale).
> >> >
> >> > The presence of the "and" indicates that the second "we" is a distinct
> >> > different group from the first but with the speaker (signer) a member
> >> > of
> >> > both groups. There is a famous phrase that exemplifies the same problem
> >> > "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path." In this case
> >> > the
> >> > AND is a transliteration from the source language but its inclusion
> >> > creates
> >> > an ambiguity that is not in the original. If that second "we" of the
> >> > sample
> >> > sentence were to refer to me, my wife and my dog then the "and" is
> >> > vital.
> >> >
> >> > There's also a BSL issue here. We have no sign for AND. There are ways
> >> > to
> >> > indicate that two things are connected but not immediately.
> >> >
> >> > The "from" affects the translational choices too. Where is this
> >> > discourse
> >> > dislocated sentence being transacted and how did the various "we"s
> >> > arrive
> >> > there, or were "we" there from the beginning. Similarly the actors to
> >> > whom
> >> > this phrase is being relayed are they from somewhere else coming to the
> >> > "here" or were they there from the beginning. This information will
> >> > change
> >> > how the sentence can be translated.
> >> >
> >> > It's not that the sentence is un-translatable *per se* but that rather
> >> > it is
> >> > not context free as Nikhil claimed somewhere (possibly on his web site).
> >> > At
> >> > least for BSL, context is required otherwise the processing costs in
> >> > the
> >> > sense of Relevance Theory is astronomically high. Without the enclosing
> >> > context it isn't really possible to provide a BSL translation.
> >> >
> >> > Regards, Trevor.
> >> >
> >> > <>< Re: deemed!
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> निखिल सिन्हा | Nikhil Sinha
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >> www.wahawafe.zxq.net - Wahawafe - a multilingual translation project.
> >> "We are humans and we are from Earth." in several languages.
> >>
> >  		 	   		
> 
> 
> -- 
> निखिल सिन्हा | Nikhil Sinha
> [log in to unmask]
> www.wahawafe.zxq.net - Wahawafe - a multilingual translation project.
> "We are humans and we are from Earth." in several languages.
>