Hello Val,
thank you for your proposal. I'll forward your mail to Barbara, the deaf informatic technician that is in charge of our Puddle (I'm not enough "powered" to take such decisions :-P ).
I hope once I can come to USA to speak directy to you about my dissertation and our projects... I just have to find founds (the economic situation in Italy doesn't allow my lab to finance me [log in to unmask]" width="16" height="12" goomoji="33A"> )

2012/2/16 Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
SignWriting List
February 16, 2012

Claudia -
This is totally fantastic news - a new article in French, your dissertation, new Italian software for SignWriting, and such enthusiastic users who see the future and realize how to find solutions to current problems - thank you!

We look forward to reading the article and dissertation and using the new software -

And by the way, I spoke with Steve, and Steve said there would be no problem providing you with an updated SignPuddle server that uses the newest software (SignPuddle 2 is coming out soon) and updating your work to the ISWA 2010…for your private server as well as any public work you wish to share - we are happy to update the SignPuddle Server which your lab purchased a few years ago...

I do not know when SignPuddle 2 will be ready, but when it is, we can talk more about upgrading your SignPuddle server…

Val ;-)


On Feb 16, 2012, at 11:39 AM, Claudia S. Bianchini wrote:

Hello Valerie and everyone,
during my thesis I found a lot of glyphes that seems to be created "ah hoc" to complete SW, not only for pauses but for mouvement, configurations... As you know, we have developped a new software for writing SW with Fabrizio Borgia. In our software, we have found a method to use those created symbols without making the software go crazy because of using of symbols for an aim different than the one the have been created for. We wrote an article on this, but it is in french and it's still in press (I hate the longs times the editors takes to press books!). It is quite complicate to explain everything, because in my thesis it takes 150 pages (over 400) just for this. The main thing is that we reorganize SW, searching for symboles that might be there but are not. Then we creates thoses symboles (we just theoreticaly creathe them, as Valewrie knows so well, it's a very long job to do). But if someone need a symbol that is not in Sw official set, and is not in our complement, we have created a system to draw symbols directly on our editor, but letting the software know that they are created one, so he can't confuse them with the original ones.
I'll send you the article ASAP (maybe it will be published on may) and I think that our software will be ready and open to everyone in a few months, so in the next future you can try it

2012/2/16 Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
SignWriting List
February 16, 2012

Hi Charles -
Thank you for this message. Yes, of course constructing symbols is not a perfect solution, as you mention in your message. I agree with you. I like the idea of freezing a constructed symbol, so it can be rotated and remembered and later classified in some way so it can be found and used again. I should think that could be programmed within software. And that would provide information for adding new symbols to any new symbol set in the future… shall we say the ISWA 2020? (big smile ;-)

Thanks for the good comment, Charles!

Val ;-)


On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:19 AM, Charles Butler wrote:

Valerie, et al,
The only problem I have with "constructing" symbols is that it defeats the purpose of actually having an ordered system. If one is hunting for a particular sign, such as a newly constructed Ethiopian handshape that is built off, say, an R, in group 2, how can that be ordered using a dictionary program. It will fall out of the dictionary because it has no separate grouping. One cannot isolate those signs that use it, and it alone, they will come up as R variants.
Ditto, this construction of pauses out of lines that are normally used for arms. If they are arms, they aren't pauses, they are arms, and if you look for an arm at an angle, these will come up. Either they are arms, and ordered in the system lookup as arms, not pieces that fall apart into a long line, which may or may not be an upper arm, or a short length, which may or may not be the lower arm, or a given finger in all of its bendings, which could be any of the four fingers, and I suppose, the thumb.
What I truly think, in the long term, is the possibility of constructing a handshape and freezing it as a group so that it can be rotated as a whole, with a naming convention of where it fits in the ISWA, IMWA or whatever the current name is. I know how long it takes you, Valerie, and others to construct a handshape with its 96 rotations, so at some point, there must be a mathematical solution that can relieve one of that labor intensive work.
Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
Clear writing moves business forward.
From: Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Symbols quotation marks and long pause

SignWriting List
February 15, 2012

I posted this message to the List, but I am not sure it made it to the List - Please excuse if this is a double posting - 

Keep asking questions!

Val ;-)


On Feb 15, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:

SignWriting List
February 15, 2012

Hello Madson and everyone -

Thank you for posting this question to the SignWriting List, Madson...

The quotation marks are used sometimes. It depends on the writer, and the style of your document. For example, the quotation marks are easier to read when writing signs horizontally. They are symbols that were designed for horizontal SignWriting and were used years ago in the SignWriter DOS program.

Quoting what another person signs, inside a document, can be written without the Quotation Marks…some writers write the actual sign for "quote" at the beginning of the quoted phrase, and then place a Pause symbol (Comma) at the end of the quoted phrase - If you are writing the way one signs a quoted phrase, that would be the most accurate way to write a quote. In that case, the Quotation Marks are not necessary.

So to answer your question…yes…the Quotation Marks can be used, but are rarely used. That is why I took them out of the International SignWriting Alphabet 2010, but, you can construct them if you want to use them, by finding some diagonal lines in the ISWA and building them yourself…They are still good symbols that can be used.

The Long Pause can also be constructed and can be as long as you want to make it. Make the space between the two lines larger or smaller depending on the length of the pause. The Long Pause is usually used when writing sign language theatre or sign language songs, when pausing can be different lengths related to the timing in music.

Meanwhile, the standard Comma or Pause symbol in SignWriting, with a small amount of space between the two lines, which is pre-constructed for you, is the symbol most people use for writing sentences…

Attached is a screen capture of building a Long Pause in SignPuddle Online, using SignMaker …see attached…

[log in to unmask]" width="443" height="703">

Val ;-)


On Feb 15, 2012, at 1:35 AM, Madson Barreto wrote:


In older textbooks written signs found two symbols that are not in SignPuddle:

- quotation marks
- Long pause

They have not yet used in SignWriting?


Madson Barreto


Val ;-)

Valerie Sutton
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Claudia S. Bianchini
PhD Student @ Univ. Paris8 + CNRS-UMR7023-SFL
PhD Student @ Univ. Studi di Perugia + CNR-ISTC-SLDS
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Claudia S. Bianchini
PhD Student @ Univ. Paris8 + CNRS-UMR7023-SFL
PhD Student @ Univ. Studi di Perugia + CNR-ISTC-SLDS
[log in to unmask]