I would not have chosen 29, but the one below it because it really looks like the second one with the middle finger arched, not wrapped around the index finger. The other looks like the ASL R, two above. Charles Butler [log in to unmask] 240-764-5748 Clear writing moves business forward. ________________________________ From: Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Egyptian SignPuddle, Question Handshape SignWriting List May 3, 2012 Hello Ryan and everyone - Thank you for these photos. I am happy to tell you that we do have this hand symbol in the ISWA 2010, which is in SignPuddle Online. You can find the symbol, with a small photo, in the ISWA 2010 Reference Manual online: Scroll down on this web page: http://www.signbank.org/iswa/10e_sg.html There will always be slight differences in the way people's hands look, when doing this position, but this symbol is good enough to represent what you have photographed. To find this hand symbol in SignPuddle Online, think of it this way… 1. What are the two action fingers? They are the Index Finger and the Middle Finger. That is Group 2 in the ISWA 2010 - Index & MIddle Fingers. 2. In SignPuddle, when you are creating a sign, click on Group 2. 3. Then find the symbol towards the end of Group 2. Here is an attached diagram to help: Val ;-) --------------------- On May 3, 2012, at 7:03 AM, Ryan Fan wrote: > Dear all, > Sorry for the delay! After much consultation with older and younger Egyptian signers, and their signs for Sunday/Christian fall somewhere between the two attached photos. The straight or slightly bent middle finger is placed above the index finger. The remaining fingers are usually in a closed fist. I'm told that what the thumb is doing is irrelevant, as long as it's not in the way of the index and middle fingers.