Print

Print


I want to thank everyone for every single advice given to me!!!!
I know you all by names, and I appreciate your wonderful suggestions!!! I feel that I am not alone in this giant work, and how difficult it will be, and also how amazing and funny it is!!!!
I will answer some questions: for the moment I am the only one using signwriting in Tunisia, I have been struggling for 4 or 5 years to make deaf community in Tunisia intrested in using signwriting, but only hearing community was intrested and wanted to learn SignWriting as they are SignWriting interpreters.... the good thing is, that deaf are getting angry, they feel now that Signwriting is theirs, and they must learn it before hearing people!!! I was so happy, beacause we are creating a new deaf community in which I will teach signwriting too, for young deaf and children too!!! it is going to be a great step in Tunisian culture!!!
Be sure, many deaf will start using SW puddle!!!! I am so happy!!!!


De : SW-L automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]>
À : [log in to unmask]
Envoyé le : Mercredi 19 septembre 2012 6h00
Objet : SW-L Digest - 17 Sep 2012 to 18 Sep 2012 (#2012-204)

There are 8 messages totalling 662 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. SignwWriting Advice Please (4)
  2. New handshapes for the ISWA 2010 (4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Sep 2012 12:53:59 +0200
From:    MARIA GALEA <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SignwWriting Advice Please

Dear Balti,
I have just analyzed the Tunisian Literature Sign Puddle (and another 9
Literature Puddles)- so you might want to look into the symbol frequency
of this Puddle - the results give immediate results and they may be of
help with your teaching.
So my little advice is:
1. To isolate the Tunisian Sign Language symbols used (you can do this
with relative ease with the Symbol Frequency Tool that is ready to use in
SignPuddle)
2. To look at the Tunisian Dictionary for specific examples of writing
Tunisian signs (although I have not analyzed the Puddle Dictionaries)
3. Perhaps you could prepare a basic Tunisian Sign Language Manual before
you start your lecturing.

I wish i could share with you the results I found for the Tunisian
Literature Puddle, but I'm afraid I cannot just yet. As soon as the work
is complete they will be available. But I suggest you carry out this task
yourself, it is very do-able.

I'm glad to hear about the news of SignWriting that may spread in a
University. That is wonderful!

PS: if you have any information about the Tunisian Puddles (e.g. how many
writers input there and whether they are Deaf of Hearing - i would very
much appreciate). If you do not have such statistics no worries..I'll just
say so with reference to the Tunisian Literature Puddle

Wish you all the best!
Maria

> Hello everyone in the group!!!
>
> I am Dali from Tunisia, I have been studing from you all every day with
> the help of all the raised questions, and specially from the nice books'
> offers sent to me by dear Valerie and SW team!!!
> The Good News are; I am going to teach SignWriting in a Very famous
> Tunisian University "Ibn Charaf"!!!!
> This dream has come true, all of the Tunisian Sign Language interpreters
> are going to learn SignWriting!!!! that's amazing!!!!
> For this reason, as I lack experience in teaching SW, I wish that you
> could help me with your nice advice, specially from those who had had such
> teaching experiences!!!
> I know that you will do help me out of love for deaf and for SignWriting
> which has become our mission to spread it in our countries and develop its
> use!!!
> I do thank you a lot, and I will appreciate every single help!!!!
> Blessings to everyone of you!!!!
>
> Dali

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Sep 2012 12:05:47 +0100
From:    yosra bouzid <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SignwWriting Advice Please

--_e78e1f4a-819c-4325-8ab2-157b60032400_
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



It's so great to hear good news for our deaf community in tunisiaThis is a =
very big achievement. Congratulations!I wish you great success
Yosra
Date: Mon=2C 17 Sep 2012 23:00:26 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SignwWriting Advice Please
To: [log in to unmask]

Hello everyone in the group!!!
I am Dali from Tunisia=2C I have been studing from you all every day with t=
he help of all the raised questions=2C and specially from the nice books' o=
ffers sent to me by dear Valerie and SW team!!!The Good News are=3B I am go=
ing to teach SignWriting in a Very famous Tunisian University "Ibn Charaf"!=
!!!This dream has come true=2C all of the Tunisian Sign Language interprete=
rs are going to learn SignWriting!!!! that's amazing!!!!For this reason=2C =
as I lack experience in teaching SW=2C I wish that you could help me with y=
our nice advice=2C specially from those who had had such teaching experienc=
es!!!I know that you will do help me out of love for deaf and for SignWriti=
ng which has become our mission to spread it in our countries and develop i=
ts use!!!I do thank you a lot=2C and I will appreciate every single help!!!=
!Blessings to everyone of you!!!!
Dali                         =

--_e78e1f4a-819c-4325-8ab2-157b60032400_
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
<br><div>It's so great to hear good news for our deaf community in tunisia<=
/div><div>This is a very big achievement. Congratulations!</div><div>I wish=
you great success</div><div><br></div><div>Yosra</div><div><br></div><div>=
<div id=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">Date: Mon=2C =
17 Sep 2012 23:00:26 +0100<br>From: [log in to unmask]<br>Subject: S=
ignwWriting Advice Please<br>To: [log in to unmask]<br><br><=
div style=3D"color:#000=3Bbackground-color:#fff=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C new=
york=2C times=2C serif=3Bfont-size:12pt"><div>Hello everyone in the group!=
!!</div><div><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3Bfont-size:15.=
555556297302246px=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif=3Bba=
ckground-color:transparent=3Bfont-style:normal">I am Dali from Tunisia=2C I=
have been studing from you all every day with the help of all the raised q=
uestions=2C and specially from the nice books' offers sent to me by dear Va=
lerie and SW team!!!</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3Bfont-size:=
15.555556297302246px=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif=
=3Bbackground-color:transparent=3Bfont-style:normal">The Good News are=3B I=
am going to teach SignWriting in a Very famous Tunisian University "Ibn Ch=
araf"!!!!</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3Bfont-size:15.55555629=
7302246px=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif=3Bbackground=
-color:transparent=3Bfont-style:normal">This dream has come true=2C all of =
the Tunisian Sign Language interpreters are going to learn SignWriting!!!! =
that's amazing!!!!</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3Bfont-size:15=
.555556297302246px=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif=3Bb=
ackground-color:transparent=3Bfont-style:normal">For this reason=2C as I la=
ck experience in teaching SW=2C I wish that you could help me with your nic=
e advice=2C specially from those who had had such teaching experiences!!!</=
div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3Bfont-size:15.555556297302246px=
=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif=3Bbackground-color:tr=
ansparent=3Bfont-style:normal">I know that you will do help me out of love =
for deaf and for SignWriting which has become our mission to spread it in o=
ur countries and develop its use!!!</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0=2C 0=2C =
0)=3Bfont-size:15.555556297302246px=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C 'new york'=2C t=
imes=2C serif=3Bbackground-color:transparent=3Bfont-style:normal">I do than=
k you a lot=2C and I will appreciate every single help!!!!</div><div style=
=3D"color:rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3Bfont-size:15.555556297302246px=3Bfont-family:t=
ahoma=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif=3Bbackground-color:transparent=3Bfont=
-style:normal">Blessings to everyone of you!!!!</div><div style=3D"color:rg=
b(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3Bfont-size:15.555556297302246px=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C 'ne=
w york'=2C times=2C serif=3Bbackground-color:transparent=3Bfont-style:norma=
l"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3Bfont-size:15.5555562973=
02246px=3Bfont-family:tahoma=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif=3Bbackground-c=
olor:transparent=3Bfont-style:normal">Dali</div></div></div>                         </d=
iv></body>
</html>=

--_e78e1f4a-819c-4325-8ab2-157b60032400_--

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Sep 2012 04:43:15 -0700
From:    Charles Butler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SignwWriting Advice Please

--1091002116-1636768934-1347968595=:21494
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dali,=0A=0AI would agree with Maria Galea. Start with the SignPuddle you ha=
ve begun and create exercises that match the handshapes and movements you h=
ave already recorded. This way the material is familiar, and as you work to=
gether you can create a textbook that works for you. I started a handwritin=
g book for Ethiopian Sign Language which I can send you as a way to get sta=
rted, if that would help.=A0=0A=A0=0ACharles [log in to unmask]
com=0A240-764-5748=0AClear writing moves business forward.=0A=0A=0A________=
________________________=0A From: yosra bouzid <[log in to unmask]>=0AT=
o: [log in to unmask] =0ASent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 7=
:05 AM=0ASubject: Re: SignwWriting Advice Please=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0AIt's so=
great to hear good news for our deaf community in tunisia=0AThis is a very=
big achievement. Congratulations!=0AI wish you great success=0A=0AYosra=0A=
=0A=0A________________________________=0ADate: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 23:00:26 +0=
100=0AFrom: [log in to unmask]=0ASubject: SignwWriting Advice Please=
=0ATo: [log in to unmask]=0A=0A=0AHello everyone in the grou=
p!!!=0A=0AI am Dali from Tunisia, I have been studing from you all every da=
y with the help of all the raised questions, and specially from the nice bo=
oks' offers sent to me by dear Valerie and SW team!!!=0AThe Good News are; =
I am going to teach SignWriting in a Very famous Tunisian University "Ibn C=
haraf"!!!!=0AThis dream has come true, all of the Tunisian Sign Language in=
terpreters are going to learn SignWriting!!!! that's amazing!!!!=0AFor this=
reason, as I lack experience in teaching SW, I wish that you could help me=
with your nice advice, specially from those who had had such teaching expe=
riences!!!=0AI know that you will do help me out of love for deaf and for S=
ignWriting which has become our mission to spread it in our countries and d=
evelop its use!!!=0AI do thank you a lot, and I will appreciate every singl=
e help!!!!=0ABlessings to everyone of you!!!!=0A=0ADali
--1091002116-1636768934-1347968595=:21494
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Dali,</span></div><di=
v style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvet=
ica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span=
><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-=
family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-s=
tyle: normal; "><span>I would agree with Maria Galea. Start with the SignPu=
ddle you have begun and create exercises that match the handshapes and move=
ments you have already recorded. This way the material is familiar, and as =
you work together you can create a textbook that works for you. I started a=
handwriting book for Ethiopian Sign Language which I can send you as a way=
to get started, if that would help.&nbsp;</span></div><div>&nbsp;</div><di=
v>Charles Butler<br>[log in to unmask]<br>240-764-5748<br>Clear
writing moves business forward.<br></div>  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "> <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div dir=3D"=
ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"f=
ont-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> yosra bouzid &lt;[log in to unmask]&=
gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> [log in to unmask]
VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span>=
</b> Tuesday, September 18, 2012 7:05 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:=
bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: SignwWriting Advice Please<br> </font> </di=
v> <br>=0A<div id=3D"yiv1730624630">=0A=0A<style><!--=0A#yiv1730624630 .yiv=
1730624630hmmessage P=0A{=0Amargin:0px;padding:0px;}=0A#yiv1730624630 body.=
yiv1730624630hmmessage=0A{=0Afont-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}=0A--></sty=
le>=0A<div><div dir=3D"ltr">=0A<br><div>It's so great to hear good news for=
our deaf community in tunisia</div><div>This is a very big achievement. Co=
ngratulations!</div><div>I wish you great success</div><div><br></div><div>=
Yosra</div><div><br></div><div><hr id=3D"yiv1730624630stopSpelling">Date: M=
on, 17 Sep 2012 23:00:26 +0100<br>From: [log in to unmask]<br>Subjec=
t: SignwWriting Advice Please<br>To: [log in to unmask]<br><=
br><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);=
font-size: 12pt; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; "><div>Hel=
lo everyone in the group!!!</div><div><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0,=
0, 0); font-size: 15.555556297302246px; background-color: transparent; fon=
t-style: normal; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; ">I am Dali=
from Tunisia, I have been studing from you all every day with the help of =
all the raised questions, and specially from the nice books' offers sent to=
me by dear Valerie and SW
team!!!</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 15.555556297302=
246px; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: taho=
ma, 'new york', times, serif; ">The Good News are; I am going to teach Sign=
Writing in a Very famous Tunisian University "Ibn Charaf"!!!!</div><div sty=
le=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 15.555556297302246px; background-colo=
r: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times,=
serif; ">This dream has come true, all of the Tunisian Sign Language inter=
preters are going to learn SignWriting!!!! that's amazing!!!!</div><div sty=
le=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 15.555556297302246px; background-colo=
r: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times,=
serif; ">For this reason, as I lack experience in teaching SW, I wish that=
you could help me with your nice advice, specially from those who had had =
such teaching experiences!!!</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-size: 15.555556297302246px; background-color: transparent; font-style=
: normal; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; ">I know that you =
will do help me out of love for deaf and for SignWriting which has become o=
ur mission to spread it in our countries and develop its use!!!</div><div s=
tyle=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 15.555556297302246px; background-co=
lor: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', time=
s, serif; ">I do thank you a lot, and I will appreciate every single help!!=
!!</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 15.555556297302246px;=
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma, 'n=
ew york', times, serif; ">Blessings to everyone of you!!!!</div><div style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 15.555556297302246px; background-color:=
transparent; font-style: normal; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, s=
erif; "><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:
15.555556297302246px; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; f=
ont-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; ">Dali</div></div></div> =09=
=09 =09  =09=09  </div></div>=0A</div><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body=
></html>
--1091002116-1636768934-1347968595=:21494--

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:05:01 -0500
From:    Steve Slevinski <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: New handshapes for the ISWA 2010

Hi Madson and list,

The core of the ISWA 2010 will not change, but we can add an addendum of
new handshapes.  This will be a compatible improvement and will not
change any of the existing data.

I have worked out most of the technical details to make this work. It
relies on creating complex subsets of the ISWA where the symbols can be
reorganized and reordered for the individual languages.  We will all
still use the ISWA, we'll just be able to access them according to the
default international order created by Val, or by a custom language
specific order.

Adding new handshapes is not a trivial matter.  Each handshape will need
to comply with all of Valerie's rules: written and unwritten.  Each new
handshape will need an addition to the font that is compatible with the
existing font.  So if anyone would like to propose a new handshape for
the ISWA 2010, we will need someone to create the font addition and
Valerie's approval and my verification of the technical details.

If anyone is interested, we can discuss how to put together a proposal
for a new handshape.

New handshapes need:
* real life picture of handshape
* symbol ID that fits within the current ISWA hierarchy
* English name
* fallback handshape if new handshape is not available.
* font Addition
** minimum of 12 PNGs (fills 1 thru 6, and rotations 1 & 2)
** eventually, 96 PNGs or 96 SVG per font.

Regards,
-Steve

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:08:25 -0500
From:    Steve Slevinski <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SignwWriting Advice Please

Hi Dali,

That is very exciting.  Congratulations and good luck.

Will you be using a computer during class?  Will you have an acceptable
internet connection?

Regards,
-Steve

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 Sep 2012 03:53:30 +0200
From:    MARIA GALEA <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: New handshapes for the ISWA 2010

Hi Steve and Madson,

Prior to creating new handshapes for ISWA, you might want to make sure
such handshapes are truly required.

In the 10 active Literature Puddles I'm analyzing - not one of these
Puddles use all base handshapes of any given group (one of these are
Brazil). For example there is noone who uses all Group 1 (Index) symbols,
not one Puddle that uses all Group 2 (Index Middle) etc etc.. all the way
down to Group 10.

I strongly believe (and the analysis I'm carrying out points to this, and
is based on real evidence) that sign languages have enough (and more than
enough) symbols to represent their phonological inventories.

It is true that there are these nuances in sign language, where for
example a new sign entering the language uses a 'rare' handshape - however
the question is - can another more frequently used handshape be used
instead of this 'odd' handshape (and extremely low frequency)?  And more
importantly if the higher frequency symbol is used instead, does the sign
remain readable? If the answer to that is yes - than the likelihood is
that the low frequency symbol is not truly required to represent the given
language.

My question to Madson is this - can you use another symbol from the ISWA
to represent the handshape/s you have in mind? and if you write your signs
with the ISWA handshapes (similar symbols/glyphs, but perhaps not exactly
what you have in mind), do your signs remain readable in context? Can the
signs be read with ISWA symbols that are already there?

But then again, my study is about 'orthography' - the graphical
representation of specific languages.  I understand that ISWA (2010) goes
beyond this. ISWA (2010) can be used for phonetic transcriptions - and
having very detailed phonetic representations of sign language is in
itself very useful for phonetic studies.

Maria

> Hi Madson and list,
>
> The core of the ISWA 2010 will not change, but we can add an addendum of
> new handshapes.  This will be a compatible improvement and will not
> change any of the existing data.
>
> I have worked out most of the technical details to make this work. It
> relies on creating complex subsets of the ISWA where the symbols can be
> reorganized and reordered for the individual languages.  We will all
> still use the ISWA, we'll just be able to access them according to the
> default international order created by Val, or by a custom language
> specific order.
>
> Adding new handshapes is not a trivial matter.  Each handshape will need
> to comply with all of Valerie's rules: written and unwritten.  Each new
> handshape will need an addition to the font that is compatible with the
> existing font.  So if anyone would like to propose a new handshape for
> the ISWA 2010, we will need someone to create the font addition and
> Valerie's approval and my verification of the technical details.
>
> If anyone is interested, we can discuss how to put together a proposal
> for a new handshape.
>
> New handshapes need:
> * real life picture of handshape
> * symbol ID that fits within the current ISWA hierarchy
> * English name
> * fallback handshape if new handshape is not available.
> * font Addition
> ** minimum of 12 PNGs (fills 1 thru 6, and rotations 1 & 2)
> ** eventually, 96 PNGs or 96 SVG per font.
>
> Regards,
> -Steve
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Sep 2012 19:03:13 -0700
From:    Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: New handshapes for the ISWA 2010

I agree with Maria, you might be surprised how a specific configuration for a handshape that one makes which seems to not be in the ISWA could probably be commonly signed by others as a different handshape that is in the ISWA. It could also be that there is a symbol that represents the handshape but has been overlooked or even forgotten. I know that I have done that on numerous occasions, and I did photos for every hand symbol in to ISWA. SMILE! So if you have a photo of the handshapes you are looking for and maybe even a video of the signs you want to write, we could probably help you work something out. Two heads are better than one, but a community of SignWriters is better. :-D

Adam

On Sep 18, 2012, at 6:53 PM, MARIA GALEA wrote:

> Hi Steve and Madson,
>
> Prior to creating new handshapes for ISWA, you might want to make sure
> such handshapes are truly required.
>
> In the 10 active Literature Puddles I'm analyzing - not one of these
> Puddles use all base handshapes of any given group (one of these are
> Brazil). For example there is noone who uses all Group 1 (Index) symbols,
> not one Puddle that uses all Group 2 (Index Middle) etc etc.. all the way
> down to Group 10.
>
> I strongly believe (and the analysis I'm carrying out points to this, and
> is based on real evidence) that sign languages have enough (and more than
> enough) symbols to represent their phonological inventories.
>
> It is true that there are these nuances in sign language, where for
> example a new sign entering the language uses a 'rare' handshape - however
> the question is - can another more frequently used handshape be used
> instead of this 'odd' handshape (and extremely low frequency)?  And more
> importantly if the higher frequency symbol is used instead, does the sign
> remain readable? If the answer to that is yes - than the likelihood is
> that the low frequency symbol is not truly required to represent the given
> language.
>
> My question to Madson is this - can you use another symbol from the ISWA
> to represent the handshape/s you have in mind? and if you write your signs
> with the ISWA handshapes (similar symbols/glyphs, but perhaps not exactly
> what you have in mind), do your signs remain readable in context? Can the
> signs be read with ISWA symbols that are already there?
>
> But then again, my study is about 'orthography' - the graphical
> representation of specific languages.  I understand that ISWA (2010) goes
> beyond this. ISWA (2010) can be used for phonetic transcriptions - and
> having very detailed phonetic representations of sign language is in
> itself very useful for phonetic studies.
>
> Maria
>
>> Hi Madson and list,
>>
>> The core of the ISWA 2010 will not change, but we can add an addendum of
>> new handshapes.  This will be a compatible improvement and will not
>> change any of the existing data.
>>
>> I have worked out most of the technical details to make this work. It
>> relies on creating complex subsets of the ISWA where the symbols can be
>> reorganized and reordered for the individual languages.  We will all
>> still use the ISWA, we'll just be able to access them according to the
>> default international order created by Val, or by a custom language
>> specific order.
>>
>> Adding new handshapes is not a trivial matter.  Each handshape will need
>> to comply with all of Valerie's rules: written and unwritten.  Each new
>> handshape will need an addition to the font that is compatible with the
>> existing font.  So if anyone would like to propose a new handshape for
>> the ISWA 2010, we will need someone to create the font addition and
>> Valerie's approval and my verification of the technical details.
>>
>> If anyone is interested, we can discuss how to put together a proposal
>> for a new handshape.
>>
>> New handshapes need:
>> * real life picture of handshape
>> * symbol ID that fits within the current ISWA hierarchy
>> * English name
>> * fallback handshape if new handshape is not available.
>> * font Addition
>> ** minimum of 12 PNGs (fills 1 thru 6, and rotations 1 & 2)
>> ** eventually, 96 PNGs or 96 SVG per font.
>>
>> Regards,
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 Sep 2012 19:04:22 -0700
From:    Charles Butler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: New handshapes for the ISWA 2010

--1091002116-1044011478-1348020262=:58688
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Maria, you should look at Ethiopian sign language. We thought we were done,=
and then Ethiopian added more than 10 complicated handshapes. Some still c=
an't be accomplished in ISWA 2010. Each country has its own phonological hi=
story and Ge'ez has a different hand alphabet than the western languages. I=
can't begin to think what Hindi or Japanese may need. =0A=0A=A0=0ACharles =
Butler=[log in to unmask]=0A240-764-5748=0AClear writing moves busi=
ness forward.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: MARIA GALEA=
<[log in to unmask]>=0ATo: [log in to unmask] =0ASen=
t: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 9:53 PM=0ASubject: Re: New handshapes for th=
e ISWA 2010=0A =0AHi Steve and Madson,=0A=0APrior to creating new handshape=
s for ISWA, you might want to make sure=0Asuch handshapes are truly require=
d.=0A=0AIn the 10 active Literature Puddles I'm analyzing - not one of thes=
e=0APuddles use all base handshapes of any given group (one of these are=0A=
Brazil). For example there is noone who uses all Group 1 (Index) symbols,=
=0Anot one Puddle that uses all Group 2 (Index Middle) etc etc.. all the wa=
y=0Adown to Group 10.=0A=0AI strongly believe (and the analysis I'm carryin=
g out points to this, and=0Ais based on real evidence) that sign languages =
have enough (and more than=0Aenough) symbols to represent their phonologica=
l inventories.=0A=0AIt is true that there are these nuances in sign languag=
e, where for=0Aexample a new sign entering the language uses a 'rare' hands=
hape - however=0Athe question is - can another more frequently used handsha=
pe be used=0Ainstead of this 'odd' handshape (and extremely low frequency)?=
=A0 And more=0Aimportantly if the higher frequency symbol is used instead, =
does the sign=0Aremain readable? If the answer to that is yes - than the li=
kelihood is=0Athat the low frequency symbol is not truly required to repres=
ent the given=0Alanguage.=0A=0AMy question to Madson is this - can you use =
another symbol from the ISWA=0Ato represent the handshape/s you have in min=
d? and if you write your signs=0Awith the ISWA handshapes (similar symbols/=
glyphs, but perhaps not exactly=0Awhat you have in mind), do your signs rem=
ain readable in context? Can the=0Asigns be read with ISWA symbols that are=
already there?=0A=0ABut then again, my study is about 'orthography' - the =
graphical=0Arepresentation of specific languages.=A0 I understand that ISWA=
(2010) goes=0Abeyond this. ISWA (2010) can be used for phonetic transcript=
ions - and=0Ahaving very detailed phonetic representations of sign language=
is in=0Aitself very useful for phonetic studies.=0A=0AMaria=0A=0A> Hi Mads=
on and list,=0A>=0A> The core of the ISWA 2010 will not change, but we can =
add an addendum of=0A> new handshapes.=A0 This will be a compatible improve=
ment and will not=0A> change any of the existing data.=0A>=0A> I have worke=
d out most of the technical details to make this work. It=0A> relies on cre=
ating complex subsets of the ISWA where the symbols can be=0A> reorganized =
and reordered for the individual languages.=A0 We will all=0A> still use th=
e ISWA, we'll just be able to access them according to the=0A> default inte=
rnational order created by Val, or by a custom language=0A> specific order.=
=0A>=0A> Adding new handshapes is not a trivial matter.=A0 Each handshape w=
ill need=0A> to comply with all of Valerie's rules: written and unwritten.=
=A0 Each new=0A> handshape will need an addition to the font that is compat=
ible with the=0A> existing font.=A0 So if anyone would like to propose a ne=
w handshape for=0A> the ISWA 2010, we will need someone to create the font =
addition and=0A> Valerie's approval and my verification of the technical de=
tails.=0A>=0A> If anyone is interested, we can discuss how to put together =
a proposal=0A> for a new handshape.=0A>=0A> New handshapes need:=0A> * real=
life picture of handshape=0A> * symbol ID that fits within the current ISW=
A hierarchy=0A> * English name=0A> * fallback handshape if new handshape is=
not available.=0A> * font Addition=0A> ** minimum of 12 PNGs (fills 1 thru=
6, and rotations 1 & 2)=0A> ** eventually, 96 PNGs or 96 SVG per font.=0A>=
=0A> Regards,=0A> -Steve=0A>=0A>
--1091002116-1044011478-1348020262=:58688
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Maria, you should loo=
k at Ethiopian sign language. We thought we were done, and then Ethiopian a=
dded more than 10 complicated handshapes. Some still can't be accomplished =
in ISWA 2010. Each country has its own phonological history and Ge'ez has a=
different hand alphabet than the western languages. I can't begin to think=
what Hindi or Japanese may need. <br></span></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Ch=
arles Butler<br>[log in to unmask]<br>240-764-5748<br>Clear writing m=
oves business forward.<br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new rom=
an, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=
=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;=
">From:</span></b> MARIA GALEA &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;<br> <b><sp=
an
style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> [log in to unmask].=
EDU <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, Se=
ptember 18, 2012 9:53 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:=
</span></b> Re: New handshapes for the ISWA 2010<br> </font> </div> <br>=0A=
Hi Steve and Madson,<br><br>Prior to creating new handshapes for ISWA, you =
might want to make sure<br>such handshapes are truly required.<br><br>In th=
e 10 active Literature Puddles I'm analyzing - not one of these<br>Puddles =
use all base handshapes of any given group (one of these are<br>Brazil). Fo=
r example there is noone who uses all Group 1 (Index) symbols,<br>not one P=
uddle that uses all Group 2 (Index Middle) etc etc.. all the way<br>down to=
Group 10.<br><br>I strongly believe (and the analysis I'm carrying out poi=
nts to this, and<br>is based on real evidence) that sign languages have eno=
ugh (and more than<br>enough) symbols to represent their phonological inven=
tories.<br><br>It is true that there are these nuances in sign language, wh=
ere for<br>example a new sign entering the language uses a 'rare' handshape=
- however<br>the question is - can another more frequently used handshape =
be used<br>instead of this 'odd' handshape (and extremely low
frequency)?&nbsp; And more<br>importantly if the higher frequency symbol i=
s used instead, does the sign<br>remain readable? If the answer to that is =
yes - than the likelihood is<br>that the low frequency symbol is not truly =
required to represent the given<br>language.<br><br>My question to Madson i=
s this - can you use another symbol from the ISWA<br>to represent the hands=
hape/s you have in mind? and if you write your signs<br>with the ISWA hands=
hapes (similar symbols/glyphs, but perhaps not exactly<br>what you have in =
mind), do your signs remain readable in context? Can the<br>signs be read w=
ith ISWA symbols that are already there?<br><br>But then again, my study is=
about 'orthography' - the graphical<br>representation of specific language=
s.&nbsp; I understand that ISWA (2010) goes<br>beyond this. ISWA (2010) can=
be used for phonetic transcriptions - and<br>having very detailed phonetic=
representations of sign language is in<br>itself very useful for
phonetic studies.<br><br>Maria<br><br>&gt; Hi Madson and list,<br>&gt;<br>=
&gt; The core of the ISWA 2010 will not change, but we can add an addendum =
of<br>&gt; new handshapes.&nbsp; This will be a compatible improvement and =
will not<br>&gt; change any of the existing data.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I have wo=
rked out most of the technical details to make this work. It<br>&gt; relies=
on creating complex subsets of the ISWA where the symbols can be<br>&gt; r=
eorganized and reordered for the individual languages.&nbsp; We will all<br=
>&gt; still use the ISWA, we'll just be able to access them according to th=
e<br>&gt; default international order created by Val, or by a custom langua=
ge<br>&gt; specific order.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Adding new handshapes is not a t=
rivial matter.&nbsp; Each handshape will need<br>&gt; to comply with all of=
Valerie's rules: written and unwritten.&nbsp; Each new<br>&gt; handshape w=
ill need an addition to the font that is compatible with the<br>&gt;
existing font.&nbsp; So if anyone would like to propose a new handshape fo=
r<br>&gt; the ISWA 2010, we will need someone to create the font addition a=
nd<br>&gt; Valerie's approval and my verification of the technical details.=
<br>&gt;<br>&gt; If anyone is interested, we can discuss how to put togethe=
r a proposal<br>&gt; for a new handshape.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; New handshapes ne=
ed:<br>&gt; * real life picture of handshape<br>&gt; * symbol ID that fits =
within the current ISWA hierarchy<br>&gt; * English name<br>&gt; * fallback=
handshape if new handshape is not available.<br>&gt; * font Addition<br>&g=
t; ** minimum of 12 PNGs (fills 1 thru 6, and rotations 1 &amp; 2)<br>&gt; =
** eventually, 96 PNGs or 96 SVG per font.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Regards,<br>&gt;=
-Steve<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br><br><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
--1091002116-1044011478-1348020262=:58688--

------------------------------

End of SW-L Digest - 17 Sep 2012 to 18 Sep 2012 (#2012-204)
***********************************************************