Hi Charles, Valerie and sw-list members, 


Perhaps this sign can explain better what is on my mind  - the two hands
move inwards – startposition U-hand a little bit curved – in the endposition
the two fingers are really bent as much as possible – 


I know and I understand that the symbol with the bent square fingers has
been accepted and is established in order to indicate this clearly. 


Our Font- design team would love to write this instead with the curved lines
as you can see on the left... 


Would this be correct?  Is there inany way  a kind of violation of
principles? Is this a matter of artwork? 






All best Stefan 



Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Stefan Wöhrmann
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2013 00:24
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: AW: discussion: design of bent fingers


Hi Charles, Valerie... 


please let me explain again – I am not discussing different signs.  I am not
discussing that it is possible to bent the fingers just a little bit or
extremely. I would like to discuss 


the possibility to write the  bent index as a bent sqare finger or as a half
–circle curve.  See the sign below. Looking at the left or right hand there
should not be any difference – well perhaps except for the “feeling” – smile





If you bent your fingers – you can write this as bent square fingers.   (We
find this for handshapes with one, two or three fingers) We do not find this
for 4 or 5 fingers – 




Well the fingers bent the same way but the design of that given handshape
shows smooth lines instead of “bent square fingers” 


Is this because of a design – problem with old software or is there an idea
behind this concept. 


I fully agree with your last statement   “  "beautiful" artwork must make
sure that you don't lose articulation. “   That is the reason that I ask for
your opinion smile! 


Hi Valerie – what do you think ? 


All best







Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Charles Butler
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2013 23:12
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: discussion: design of bent fingers


For me there is an essential difference between a bent finger and a smoothed
finger when you miss the point that two joints are bent, like the difference
between "depend" where the joints smoothly go into a curve, and "friend"
where they clearly link as bent square fingers.
(McDonald's two CURVES) or
0a19n30xn3S2660634x3S26612n64x3S218005xn15S21800n22xn15S2fb00n8xn24> (etc.)
and something with clearly the first and second joints clearly squared. 

This is the sign for Mexican from a sarape (a blanket used as a wrap). It
would not be correct to make the sign without an actual hooked finger as a
"minimal pair", so, for me, "beautiful" artwork must make sure that you
don't lose articulation. 

Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
Clear writing moves business forward.

--- On Wed, 2/13/13, Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: discussion: design of bent fingers
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 PM

Hi Valerie and sw-friends, 


I would like to ask for your comments about the following issue.


Within our delegs-projekt a group of specialized design-students have a
second look at the various SW-symbols. From their point of view there are
options to “improve” the design of some symbols in order to make the whole
SW-symbol-font look more “modern” or “nice”


While preparing some studies of the ongoing process they showed up with the
question whether the bent index can be written with smooth curves as well
showing the index finger bent as you designed it as a finger with sharp





I played around with the signmaker to create a little demo of what I am
talking about.  ;-)) 



Interesting question – so I looked carefully at the Symbolset and discovered
that the “claw hand”  is designed exactly this way  (rounded lines for the

On the other hand the hands with only one, two or at least three fingers
show this other design with sharp 90° angles. 


Can you tell us: Is this a matter of history? Coming from the old
“DOS-SW-Software – we could not write nice circles either. You know this
“old symbol” just indicating that you are supposed to see a circle-movement
shown as some dots in a circle. 


What about this difference between a clawhand with curves or the same hand
written with edges? 





Is there any meaningful difference in the background that you would want us
to know?   Or is this a matter of artwork? ... or  something else? 


Would it be any difference if we would write all these bent fingers with
soft rounded lines? 


Thank you very much for your attention. 


All best