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I agree with both you and Valerie. As a handwriting system, not locked into a space requirement of a computer system working with other design requirements, the curve is clear and beautiful.

As a font requirement, where all the elements of design must fit within designed parameters so that all parts fit together, your curved fingers would have to be shorter to fit within the frame of the hands for the two fingers. Valerie is correct on that point.

What happens then is that were you to design a font, then the entire font will need to be viewed as a piece. Will ALL of the design elements, not just one hand, fit within a design framework so that if you, for example, put a flat open 5 hand with the curves of motion around it that it doesn't conflict in size and shape. You can't change one element, without looking at how that element effects all other places.

If you design a font, then all points of the font have to work together, essentially a complete redesign. Just like an italic font and a square font can work together.

But if you go to a different font altogether, then the F of Lucida Console in a LARGER size can't possibly be expected to match a larger font that is curved. It's a different style for a different purpose. 

Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.

--- On Wed, 2/13/13, Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: AW: discussion: design of bent fingers
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 6:40 PM

Hi Charles, Valerie and sw-list members,

 

Perhaps this sign can explain better what is on my mind  - the two hands move inwards – startposition U-hand a little bit curved – in the endposition the two fingers are really bent as much as possible –

 

I know and I understand that the symbol with the bent square fingers has been accepted and is established in order to indicate this clearly.

 

Our Font- design team would love to write this instead with the curved lines as you can see on the left...

 

Would this be correct?  Is there inany way  a kind of violation of principles? Is this a matter of artwork?

 

 

[log in to unmask]" height="75" width="163">

 

 

 

All best Stefan

 


Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Stefan Wöhrmann
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2013 00:24
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: AW: discussion: design of bent fingers

 

Hi Charles, Valerie...

 

please let me explain again – I am not discussing different signs.  I am not discussing that it is possible to bent the fingers just a little bit or extremely. I would like to discuss

 

the possibility to write the  bent index as a bent sqare finger or as a half –circle curve.  See the sign below. Looking at the left or right hand there should not be any difference – well perhaps except for the “feeling” – smile

 

 

[log in to unmask]" height="96" width="181">

 

 

If you bent your fingers – you can write this as bent square fingers.   (We find this for handshapes with one, two or three fingers) We do not find this for 4 or 5 fingers –

 

Why?

 

Well the fingers bent the same way but the design of that given handshape shows smooth lines instead of “bent square fingers”

 

Is this because of a design – problem with old software or is there an idea behind this concept.

 

I fully agree with your last statement   “  "beautiful" artwork must make sure that you don't lose articulation. “   That is the reason that I ask for your opinion smile!

 

Hi Valerie – what do you think ?

 

All best

 

Stefan

 

 

 


Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Charles Butler
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2013 23:12
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: discussion: design of bent fingers

 

For me there is an essential difference between a bent finger and a smoothed finger when you miss the point that two joints are bent, like the difference between "depend" where the joints smoothly go into a curve, and "friend" where they clearly link as bent square fingers. (McDonald's two CURVES) or (etc.) and something with clearly the first and second joints clearly squared.

This is the sign for Mexican from a sarape (a blanket used as a wrap). It would not be correct to make the sign without an actual hooked finger as a "minimal pair", so, for me, "beautiful" artwork must make sure that you don't lose articulation.





Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.

--- On Wed, 2/13/13, Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


From: Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: discussion: design of bent fingers
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 PM

Hi Valerie and sw-friends,

 

I would like to ask for your comments about the following issue.

 

Within our delegs-projekt a group of specialized design-students have a second look at the various SW-symbols. From their point of view there are options to “improve” the design of some symbols in order to make the whole SW-symbol-font look more “modern” or “nice”

 

While preparing some studies of the ongoing process they showed up with the question whether the bent index can be written with smooth curves as well showing the index finger bent as you designed it as a finger with sharp edges.

 

 

[log in to unmask]" height="75" width="162">

 

 

I played around with the signmaker to create a little demo of what I am talking about.  ;-))

 

 

Interesting question – so I looked carefully at the Symbolset and discovered that the “claw hand”  is designed exactly this way  (rounded lines for the fingers)

On the other hand the hands with only one, two or at least three fingers show this other design with sharp 90° angles.

 

Can you tell us: Is this a matter of history? Coming from the old “DOS-SW-Software – we could not write nice circles either. You know this “old symbol” just indicating that you are supposed to see a circle-movement shown as some dots in a circle.

 

What about this difference between a clawhand with curves or the same hand written with edges?

 

 

[log in to unmask]" height="98" width="206">

 

 

Is there any meaningful difference in the background that you would want us to know?   Or is this a matter of artwork? ... or  something else?

 

Would it be any difference if we would write all these bent fingers with soft rounded lines?

 

Thank you very much for your attention.

 

All best

 

Stefan