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SignWriting List
March 29, 2013

Actually, in this instance, I would choose Adam's writing below, based on what I saw in the picture...because Stefan's writing does not tell me the same information - Adam's writing is saying that the hand is sitting on top of the palm, but Stefan's writing looks like the hand is above the palm slightly and not really sitting on the palm, plus the right arm looks like it is in front of the left hand, and not really sitting on top of the left hand…the darkened forearm represents an arm in front of the other - so I would assume that the touch contact means that the wrist of the right arm is touching the little finger side of the left hand - 

For me it is not necessary to write the wrist flexing since the two hands tell it all when writing the Position of Contact...

All this is just my perspective obviously and whatever you all decide is fine with me ;-)

I think this is a really interesting discussion - this is why I realized that "writing what you see" is not always the same for everyone - people see different things in the exact same picture -

Whether something hurts or not is not the point either - because people have different body types and I cannot do half the positions we can write - smile -

Val ;-)

--------


On Mar 29, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Would this be a clear enough writing?


Adam

On Mar 29, 2013, at 12:13 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:

Hi Maria, Erika,Adam, Valerie...
 
The reason that I feel uncomfortable with the spelling of this sign is just as Erika explains:
 
“Maybe it's because the wrist of the right hand has to flex so much to allow  the hand to rest in the palm of the left? “
 
That`s it and it is independent of DGS – smile.
 
 
Reading your sign my brain suggests to experiment with one of these variations:
 
Left hand indicating the ground, right hand indicating the tower (Dharahara)   -
 
 
(I would feel much more comfortable with the left hand palm down ( but that is not the point. It is not up to me to discuss signs but only to discuss spelling – I know smile!)
 
 
 
 
Well if you write a “rest” one hand upon another I expect that I can perform that. In this case you cannot unless you rest the lower arm on the palm of the left hand holding the right hand at 90°.
(That hurts)
 
 
 
What we do in these cases is what Adam explained: We simply accept and tell our brain to interpret this spelling if it shows up another time to be interpreted as what you see on Erikas foto.
 
I myself love to discuss spelling and to ask myself wether this or that spelling should be chosen.
 
Sometimes I have my doubts immediately – for example when reading the first attempt of Claudia to write Paris – wow next message she shows up to change handorientation – well done!! Another example is the spelling of Sao Paulo palm facing the signer...
 
 
In this case of Kathmandu – Adam is right – it hurts if I try to sign it with this extreme bend  and I would be eager to videotape 10 signers in Kathmandu – how many of them would rest the back of the right hand on the palm of the left hand – but just bending the index up – or something like this in between the two spellings ;-)
 
So to anwer your question Maria – in my first contact with Erikas spelling  I wanted the right hand with index straight upward... and that is impossible.
 
Thanks Maria for your question.
 
 
Stefan
 
 
 

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. März 2013 18:25
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: Erika's SignWriting..
 
Stefan - would that have helped?
Happy Easter to you too Maria! I was actually just eating a Cadbury Cream Egg while reading your message...

 

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:13 PM, MARIA GALEA <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Yes that could be it..perhaps if the B-Hand hand is written diagonally it
might read more 'smoothly'? see attached.

oh and before I go a BIG HAPPY EASTER Erika and EVERYONE else on the
List..enjoy your Easter Eggs and naturally your loved ones.
maria



> Maybe it's because the wrist of the right hand has to flex so much to
> allow
> the hand to rest in the palm of the left? Maybe that extreme bend is not
> as
> phonologically common in, say, DGS?
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:51 PM, MARIA GALEA
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> Stefan,
>> I could read Erika's writing perfectly, without the photo. I don't
>> understand why you claimed that the SignWriting couldn't be performed.
>> Maria
>>
>>
>> > Here's a photo of the sign. How would you suggest I write it. Scribing
>> has
>> > never been my strong suit :)
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Stefan W�hrmann <
>> > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>  Hi Erika, ****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> well I cannot perform that ;-(  although I have an idea what you want
>> to
>> >> show � but right hand up there is the horizontal line of hand and
>> lower
>> >> arm  - nothing that can be rest on the left palm ???****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> Stefan****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>  ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> *Von:* SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:
>> >> [log in to unmask]] *Im Auftrag von *Erika
>> >> Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 28. M�rz 2013 18:07
>> >>
>> >> *An:* [log in to unmask]
>> >> *Betreff:* Re: Signs for Cities and States - can you write the name
>> of
>> >> YOUR city and post to the List?
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >>  ** **
>> >>
>> >> Yes, the right hand comes to rest on top of the palm of the left.
>> Maybe
>> >> I
>> >> should just have shown them already in contact?****
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Stefan W�hrmann <
>> >> [log in to unmask]> wrote:****
>> >>
>> >> Hi Erika, ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> can you explain Kathmandu: ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> left flat hand palm up fingers to the right ( no problem)****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> right hand Index � Hand � palm facing the signer  moving down  - mh
>> �
>> >>  how to get the touch between the two hands � right hand on top of
>> the
>> >> left
>> >> hand ?? ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> Stefan ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>  ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> *Von:* SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:
>> >> [log in to unmask]] *Im Auftrag von *Erika
>> >> Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 28. M�rz 2013 17:18****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *An:* [log in to unmask]
>> >> *Betreff:* Re: Signs for Cities and States - can you write the name
>> of
>> >> YOUR city and post to the List?****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> I don't know ASL, so I don't know a sign for Detroit, Ann Arbor, or
>> >> Oberlin (my US places).****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So I'm posting the sign for Kathmandu, the city where I learned to
>> sign!
>> >> *
>> >> ***
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> I am a West Coaster, and I must admit that people get East Coast city
>> >> signs mixed up along with our own city signs. But this is how I
>> >> personally
>> >> sign the 4 commonly confused "B" cities, since I am very picky and
>> have
>> >> been known to correct people at times. ;-) It seems to match what you
>> >> sign,
>> >> Kim.****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Boston, Massachusetts****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Baltimore, Massachusetts****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Berkeley, California****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Burbank, California****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> Adam****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 28, 2013, at 8:23 AM, Kimberley Shaw wrote:****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> Hi everyone:
>> >> those of us in Boston, Massachusetts sign it thus:
>> >> ****
>> >>  ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >>  and refer to Berkeley, CA thus:
>> >>
>> >> But some of my signing friends tell me that when you're on the West
>> >> Coast,
>> >> it's the other way around!
>> >> Best,
>> >> Kim from Boston****
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Valerie Sutton
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> wrote:****
>> >>
>> >> SignWriting List****
>> >>
>> >> March 28, 2013****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> NAMES OF CITIES and STATES Around the World****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> Thank you, Ingvild, Charles and Stefan for your signs!****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> I would suggest that you add your signs to the International Sign
>> >> Dictionary online:****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> SignPuddle for International Signs Dictionary****
>> >>
>> >> http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/index.php?ui=1&sgn=35****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> I just copied mine for La Jolla, California from the ASL Dictionary
>> to
>> >> the
>> >> International Dictionary, and I hope you can do the same for your
>> signs
>> >> too�
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> And I hope more names of cities, states, countries and other
>> >> international
>> >> signs can be added too�****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> Here is what we have so far�and I really like all four spellings!
>> Thanks
>> >> to you all�****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> Val ;-)****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >>  ****
>> >>
>> >>   ****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> >> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>> >> Oberlin College ****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> >> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>> >> Oberlin College ****
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> > Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>> > Oberlin College
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
> Oberlin College
>



-- 
Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
Oberlin College