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Agreed. I think the reason why we feel this way is because SignWriting is such a (near) perfect system. If we were trying to read one of the other sign notation systems (like Stokoe's), we would have to analyze all the time, and it would be as cumbersome written receptive as written expressive. 

Ingvild 


Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 03:35:38 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: one more receptive/expressive question
To: [log in to unmask]

I think Signwriting and spoken language writing are different here.  When reading signwriting, receptive and expressive writing are very different animals, so different that for ME, trying to read receptive writing is a difficult task, while reading expressive writing is not difficult at all.   But if I am writing what someone else says in English (regardless of what  I think about what he is saying), it will look just like it would if I wrote what i was thinking.  Reading, regardless of emotion, is a receptive task.  Listening/watching is a receptive task.  Only writing can be an expressive task.  What makes it difficult in the case of sign is that there IS a difference between reading receptive and expressive.  And the hoops my brain has to jump through in order to translate something receptive
 into the way my brain CAN properly receive the message is why it is so hard.  

cherie


        From: Erika <[log in to unmask]>
 To: [log in to unmask] 
 Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:09 PM
 Subject: Re: one more receptive/expressive question
   
I take your point Val, though I
 think that if we include social, emotional, contextual etc signification - as opposed to just reference - the sound of the voice or qualities of signing can add lots of meaning. I also think that it may be possible to read written spoken language receptively - for example, if a person feels alienated from the type of text (suppose someone reading in a language they understand but don't identify with, or someone reading an authoritative legal text) might project in their head a voice that isn't their own. I sometimes ask students this question, whether they hear their own voice internally when they read, and the answers can vary according to the student's identity in relation to what they are reading.Does that make sense?

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 22, 2013, at 7:58 PM, "Valerie Sutton" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

 SignWriting ListAugust 22, 2013
Yes, I agree, thank you, Ingvild, for sharing this - This is a good story to remember...Reading appears to be expressive, whether your read out loud, or hear your own voice in silence while you read, or read without hearing anything…it is still expressive, because you are internalizing the thoughts for meaning, as if they are your own - You are not hearing someone else's voice - because there is no way you could know what the original author sounded like, nor is the sound of someone else's voice the point of the message - How someone else signs something (produces the movements) is not the point either, if you are reading for "meaning" - 
Val ;-)
----

On Aug 22, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Erika
 Hoffmann-Dilloway <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Ah, that is an interesting way of thinking about expressive/receptive reading for spoken language! 
Thanks Ingvild!


On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Ingvild Roald <[log in to unmask]> wrote:




On an off-note: St Augustin, bishop in Hippo, North Africa ca 400, commented astonished that he had heard that some people actually read without using their voice (if I remember my facts correctly. It definitely was someone famous and around that time). So it seems he and most other people who were able read did so expressively ...


Ingvild 


Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 14:49:25 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: one more receptive/expressive question
To: [log in to unmask]


Thank you Valerie and Cherie for your interesting replies!


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Cherie Wren <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


If I can't immediately read a sign, I will try to sign it 'out loud'.  If I am reading receptive, I get all confused, because it doesn't feel right.



cherie


  
      From: Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway <[log in to unmask]>


 To: [log in to unmask] 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:54 AM


 Subject: one more receptive/expressive question
   
Hi again! Thanks to all who responded to my earlier question - such helpful responses! I'll be sure to keep you all updated about the paper. 


I noticed something in your replies that made me think of an additional question: most of you talked about the process of writing and how expressive/receptive affects that process. Do any of you have any thoughts on how the choice affects reading? For example, when you read something written expressively, do you think that it makes you experience the writing differently? Are you more likely to sign it "out loud" (physically perform the signs in whole or in part while signing)? To notice spelling or writing choices that would differ from your own? Does putting yourself in the writer's shoes make you relate to them more?



Thanks!
Erika

-- 
Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
Oberlin College


      

-- 
Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
Oberlin College
 		 	   		  


-- 
Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
Oberlin College