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Reposting this message. The experiment that showed two signers at once in the same graph would be something similar. I could see, if one had electrodes connected to one's hands and tied into a SignWriting program the possibility of showing a room full of signers merged into a crowd scene, like a comic-book when multiple voices are shown on the same page.



 
Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.


________________________________
 From: Charles Butler <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: NIST concepts - multiple speakers
 


The transcription by multiple speakers would be write up the line of some NIST programs that are written to transcribe multiple speakers. If they were adapted to electrodes on people's hands like Valerie's black and white gloves, and with careful programming tied to Sign Writing, one could transcribe multiple conversations. You still need a large sign library to ensure correct language, but it could be done and a great idea for a national grant. 


 
Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.


________________________________
 From: André L <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:04 PM
Subject: receptive/expressive for chat littérature  and poetry
 


 
Hello Erika,
 
let us imagine the future ...
 
Let us think about chat, litterature, poetry...
 
I would have a software like Chineese that allows selecting international sign language and ASL pictograms very fast with most common words displayed after a few clicks. Sign writting would be fast.  We could even sign in front of the camera and get a transcript by Microsoft (it is coming!).
 
I would chat with you...
My text would appear to me from the expressive perspective but your answer would be displayed receptively to me in my browser.
 
I would read a book with intense emotions written expressively by the narrator to make me feel in the shoes of the character.  Then comes the mean character, whom threatens my character that I read receptively.  There would be a tendency to make mean character left handed (even with a scar on a hand).  Until
 the identity of the mean character is known, no sign would display a face...
 
Other narrators may write in the receptive perspective to keep a distance from the reader, example an official report.
 
Theater may be written from the perspective of each actor, all adapted through a software.  Signs would point toward left, right or the front depending on whom talks to whom.  That would apply to the transcript of a conference with several speakers.
 
I would have friend using their own signwritting fonts, more fancy, with smooter edges, a wedding ring or a watch embedded in the signs to make them more personnal.  Some fonts would be more like real hands.  Just like smileys but for signs...
 
I would prefer to read my sign writting texts on my i-pad.  I would swap the whole text to left handed because I am left handed.  I would swapt the whole text from a receptive
 perspective because that would be our way in my country for some reason.  The view from above could be selected for a character like Spiderman...
 
Poetry would swap between left-right, expressive-receptive, even top view to exploit shapes of the signs.  The arab calligraphy use geometry sometimes...
 
In French we had a lot of writters and poets that explored how far language itself can go (beyond the meaning itself).
 
if something is possible given time, eventually somebody will do it (or did it).  Particularly artists...
 
André Lemyre
 
 
 
 

 


________________________________
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 21:23:00 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: one more receptive/expressive question
To: [log in to unmask]


Yes, the visual reversal is different and really interesting!


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 22, 2013, at 9:11 PM, "Valerie Sutton" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


SignWriting List
>August 22, 2013
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>But in spoken language, you do not have to switch right side with left side - 
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>In spoken language, just because you don't agree with what is being said, it does not mean that you are hearing a scratchy voice versus a high voice versus a low voice when reading the concepts that you disagree with - 
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>But this is exactly why another research lab wanted to research the amazing SignWriting phenomena of the "ability" to write receptive and expressive -
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>There is no way in the English alphabet to physically right the high tones or the low tones or the scratching tones or the screaming tones - except for of course some tonal languages perhaps - smile - but that is not English -
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>So once again, I think the production of sound of an excited sentence does not mean we are writing the exact tone of the original writer - the thinker who is reading it puts those excited tones into it I think - and that for me seems to be expressive -
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>Well - I think we need a new research grant to research this with MRI equipment!
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>I only know that Deaf writers who were signing as their first language, who were skilled in SignWriting for 4 years, requested Expressive because they wanted it - smile - and I followed their lead ;-)
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>Val ;-)
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>On Aug 22, 2013, at 5:09 PM, Erika <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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>I take your point Val, though I think that if we include social, emotional, contextual etc signification - as opposed to just reference - the sound of the voice or qualities of signing can add lots of meaning. 
>>I also think that it may be possible to read written spoken language receptively - for example, if a person feels alienated from the type of text (suppose someone reading in a language they understand but don't identify with, or someone reading an authoritative legal text) might project in their head a voice that isn't their own. I sometimes ask students this question, whether they hear their own voice internally when they read, and the answers can vary according to the student's identity in relation to what they are reading.
>>Does that make sense?
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Aug 22, 2013, at 7:58 PM, "Valerie Sutton" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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>>SignWriting List
>>>August 22, 2013
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>>>Yes, I agree, thank you, Ingvild, for sharing this - This is a good story to remember...Reading appears to be expressive, whether your read out loud, or hear your own voice in silence while you read, or read without hearing anything…it is still expressive, because you are internalizing the thoughts for meaning, as if they are your own - You are not hearing someone else's voice - because there is no way you could know what the original author sounded like, nor is the sound of someone else's voice the point of the message - How someone else signs something (produces the movements) is not the point either, if you are reading for "meaning" - 
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>>>Val ;-)
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>>>On Aug 22, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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>>>Ah, that is an interesting way of thinking about expressive/receptive reading for spoken language! 
>>>>Thanks Ingvild!
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>>>>On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Ingvild Roald <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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>>>>On an off-note: St Augustin, bishop in Hippo, North Africa ca 400, commented astonished that he had heard that some people actually read without using their voice (if I remember my facts correctly. It definitely was someone famous and around that time). So it seems he and most other people who were able read did so expressively ...
>>>>>
>>>>>Ingvild 
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>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 14:49:25 -0400
>>>>>From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>Subject: Re: one more receptive/expressive question
>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you Valerie and Cherie for your interesting replies!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Cherie Wren <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>If I can't immediately read a sign, I will try to sign it 'out loud'.  If I am reading receptive, I get all confused, because it doesn't feel right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>cherie
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask] 
>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:54 AM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Subject: one more receptive/expressive question
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi again! Thanks to all who responded to my earlier question - such helpful responses! I'll be sure to keep you all updated about the paper. 
>>>>>>>I noticed something in your replies that made me think of an additional question: most of you talked about the process of writing and how expressive/receptive affects that process. Do any of you have any thoughts on how the choice affects reading? For example, when you read something written expressively, do you think that it makes you experience the writing differently? Are you more likely to sign it "out loud" (physically perform the signs in whole or in part while signing)? To notice spelling or writing choices that would differ from your own? Does putting yourself in the writer's shoes make you relate to them more?
>>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>>Erika
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-- 
>>>>>>>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>>>>>>>Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>>>>>>>Oberlin College 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-- 
>>>>>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>>>>>Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>>>>>Oberlin College 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>>>>Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>>>>Oberlin College 
>>>
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