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Good work,
some preliminary feedback...
 
The editor my want to put the title of the dictionary in roman alphabet and in SignWriting.
The editor may want to put an introduction of a few pages to the dictionary in roman alphabet and in SignWriting.
 
More feedback to come...
André Lemyre

 
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 08:17:42 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Technical dictionaries
To: [log in to unmask]

SignWriting ListOctober 10, 2013
Wow! This means that by coordinating the two programs, SignPuddle and SignWriter Studio, we will be able to choose a group of signs in either program, and print them to PDF in Sign Lists in SignWriter Studio - very good!
The more "printing to PDF" features you can provide, Jonathan, the more useful SignWriter Studio will become … knowing the way life is, I bet users will want different printing layouts within the PDF…like two columns, or one column lists… and lists sorted by the Roman alphabet and lists sorted by Sign-Symbol-Sequence (the sequence of SignWriting symbols in the ISWA 2010)…
I know sorting by SignWriting symbols is much harder, so I am sure sorting by the Roman alphabet will be the first step and that is a great first step -
And to be able to choose different typesetting sizes - in other words - printing the dictionary at 100 per cent size, or reducing the size so that the signs and words are maybe 50% size and so forth - smaller or larger looking signs and words -
I think it is great that you are including choice of paper size - there is a difference between A4, the world's standard paper size, and the US Letter Size, that seems to be unique to North America -
Thank you for working on printing to PDF!
Val ;-)



On Oct 10, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Duncan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
  
    
  
  
    Hi Val,
    On 10/10/2013 8:55 AM, Valerie Sutton
      wrote:

    
    
      
      SignWriting List
      October 10, 2013
      

      
      Hello Jonathan!
      This is very exciting indeed. If I understand this correctly,
        when people enter new signs in the dictionary in SignWriter
        Studio, they will be able to associate the sign with different
        Sign Lists…for example, the sign for CHAIR could be in the Sign
        Lists for FURNITURE and HOUSEHOLD. So each sign could belong to
        multiple Sign Lists. Then the user chooses the Sign List
        FURNITURE, and the sign for CHAIR will be listed there with
        other signs for furniture. 
    
        Yes, that's right!!

    

    
      Then the user can print the Sign List. Can the PDF
        automatically place a title at the top saying something like
        "Signs for Furniture in _______Sign Language" , with page
        numbers?
    
    Yes good idea!!! Thank you for the feedback.

    
      

      
      Can signs from SignPuddle be imported into the SignWriter
        Studio dictionary?
    
    Yes.

    Create or open a SignWriter Studio File. 

    Click on File/Import

    Choose the file previously saved from SignPuddle under the Export
    option.

    

    Regards,

    

    Jonathan

    
      

      
      Val ;-)
      

      
      --------
      

      
      

        
          On Oct 10, 2013, at 7:29 AM, Jonathan Duncan <[log in to unmask]>
            wrote:
          
          
            
             Hi all,

                  please feel free to give point of view and
              suggestions.

              

              Hello André 

                  This is a revised list of functionality for making
              technical dictionaries for printout from the entries in
              the current SignWriter Studio Dictionary from our emails
              off the list.  We could call these technical dictionaries
              "Sign Lists" or "Glossaries" or "Topics".  Look forward to
              input from members on the list.

              

              Features for first version

              
                Create a new window to show the list of signs in for
                  each "Sign List".

                
                
                Click on Add Sign will bring up the Dictionary which
                  can be searched, then the signs selected to be added
                  to the current "Sign List".
                Sign Lists automatically saved to Dictionary file.
                Can select paper size.

                
                Print Layout
                
                  Two columns

                  
                  Words (gloss) at the top of each entry in bold
                  SignWriting, with Illustration of what it is
                    beside it.
                  Keep all entries together, not split across two
                    pages.
                  Shrink SignWriting and Illustration if they don't
                    fit the column width
                  Signs sorted by word (gloss)

                  
                  Roman numeral page numbering
                
              
              Possible future features

              
                Screen paging. The complete list would not be
                  loaded, at most 100 at a time to not overload the
                  memory.
                In the Dictionary add a place for full spoken
                  language description.

                
                Option to printout or not description
                Option to printout secondary language also
                  (bilingual option example English and French along
                  with the sign)
                Option to split output into several files. There may
                  be a problem with PDF: with 10 signs per page we have
                  800 pages of ASL dictionary full of drawings and
                  several pictures.  Low resolution sign images are
                  required.  It may be problematic to load 800 pages in
                  adobe to see 1 single word... Possibly split the
                  dictionary in 5 or 24 documents.
                Extra pages either make them or option to include
                  pre-made pages in PDF.

                
                
                  The user should be able to create a cover page
                    with text of several lines, and image, several line.
                  Second page, the editor name, the date, copyright
                    to Valerie and you and pointer to internet sites.
                  Several pages of introduction text prior to the
                    dictionary itself.
                
                Possible a table of content or pointers to jump to a
                  chosen letter (table of content being undefined until
                  the page count is completed).
                Possibly the first word of each page in the top left
                  corner to browse fast through a paper document.
                Sort signs by Symbol
              Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.

              
Thanks

                Jonathan

              

              On 10/4/2013 10:26 AM, André
                L wrote:

              
              
                
                Hello Duncan,

                   

                  thank you for your interest in supporting dictionary
                  generation with SignWriter Studio.  I like this
                  software a lot.

                   

                  This is my main interest in sign writing.  I whish to
                  support access to rich vocabulary for interpreters,
                  parents or hearing educator to improve the quality of
                  the communication with deaf people.  The second aspect
                  is to develop highly technical dictionaries for
                  students and interpreters to avoid re-inventing custom
                  signs all the time.

                   

                  I am a software tester (13 years of experience).  Do
                  you want to discuss specifications, test case
                  suite...  The user guide could be a starting point...

                   

                  It will be important to be able to exclude signs or
                  words from such dictionary ( in LSQ sign puddle we
                  have plenty of plural and feminin version of the same
                  word and conjugated verbs).

                   

                   

                  André Lemyre

                   

                  
                    Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 09:01:52
                    -0600

                    From: [log in to unmask]

                    Subject: Re: Creating a dictionnary

                    To: [log in to unmask]

                    

                    Hi André,   

                        Way back I wrote a program called ASL List that
                    did exactly what you want but it was limited it only
                    had so many signs.  So I decided to and SignWriting
                    to it and then came about SignWriter Studio.  

                    

                    Presently that feature isn't working but I will work
                    on that next now that someone else is also
                    interested!!!  

                    

                    Jonathan

                    

                    On 10/2/2013 7:09
                      PM, André L wrote:

                    
                    
                      
                      

                         Hello Valerie,

                        I would like to know how to create a paper
                        dictionary (like a book) by importing ALL LSQ
                        signs from sign puddle.  I could show that to
                        collegue students, interpreters and use it
                        myself.

                         

                        Also, can we develop a technical dictionary
                        (like for a student electrician) that will also
                        be part of the main dictionary?

                        Would there be a way to gather a pdf subset of
                        the main dictionary that the student could share
                        with several interpreters working with him-her?

                         

                        André Lemyre

                        
                          Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013
                          17:30:46 -0700

                          From: [log in to unmask]

                          Subject: Re: Sign puddle online does not
                          translate existing words

                          To: [log in to unmask]

                          

                          SignWriting List
                          October 2, 2013
                          

                          
                          Hello Andre, and Andre, Steve and
                            Jonathan!
                          

                          
                          So ….we have some wonderful software that
                            needs to be better coordinated - but both
                            programs by themselves work well. Right now,
                            Steve needs to complete the new SinPuddle 3
                            and get it uploaded, because it also
                            contains new features that everyone wants,
                            and it has taken longer than expected to
                            complete the software…
                          

                          
                          Regarding creating your own dictionaries,
                            there is not only SignWriter Studio, but
                            also the PersonalPuddle, and Private Web
                            Puddles, and you can also use SignPuddle
                            Online and label your signs as yours in the
                            Source and those signs could always be
                            transferred to SignWriter Studio maybe? can
                            one reverse the process? - ha! In time, all
                            these programs will work well together I am
                            sure…both Jonathan and Steve work for very
                            little pay and are working hard to make the
                            programs work well -
                          

                          
                          So for now, I would either use the
                            workaround that Jonathan suggested, or edit
                            the signs in SignText, not SignMaker… let me
                            test this myself - I am sorry I have not
                            done that yet -
                          

                          
                          SignBank would not work with this because
                            it has not been updated for years but I want
                            to update it in the future -
                          

                          
                          Val ;-)
                          

                          
                          ----
                          

                          
                          

                            
                              On Oct 2, 2013, at 5:20 PM, André L
                                <[log in to unmask]>


                                wrote:
                              
                              
                                
                                  

                                    Hello Jonathan,

                                     

                                    thank you for the work around.

                                    I will try it this weekend.

                                    I will try to contact Steve to
                                    assist me because I have over a
                                    hundred signs to process.

                                    I have many more signs in draft in
                                    SignWriter studio.

                                     

                                    Also, I tried sign bank 85 but I
                                    could never upload the Québec Sign
                                    language files I copied from Sign
                                    puddle, so I gave up.   I would have
                                    like to build a dictionnary.

                                     

                                     

                                    André Lemyre

                                    
                                      Date:
                                      Wed, 2 Oct 2013 16:29:30 -0600

                                      From: [log in to unmask]

                                      Subject: Re: Sign puddle online
                                      does not translate existing words

                                      To: [log in to unmask]

                                      

                                      Hi Andre,

                                         When exporting from SignWriter
                                      Studio to Sign Puddle there is no
                                      way to directly to a SignMaker
                                      entry. This is a limitation of
                                      SignPuddle. I have run into this
                                      limitation myself personally
                                      trying to add and modify sign to
                                      the puddle from SignWriter
                                      Studio.  SignPuddle doesn't yet
                                      have adequate import/export or
                                      synching capabilities.   I have
                                      written to Steve about it but he
                                      hasn't been able to make it a
                                      priority yet.

                                      If you just have a few signs then
                                      this is they way to do it.

                                      
                                        In SignWriter Studio when
                                          positioned on the sign, click
                                          Edit/Copy/Copy Sign to Sign
                                          Puddle or press Ctrl-Alt-C. 
                                          It shows the sign in
                                          SignPuddle in your browser.
                                        Click on the puddle you want
                                          to save to.
                                        In Terms type "temp"
                                        Click Add
                                        Click Copy Sign From
                                          SignText
                                        Click Copy Sign
                                        Click on SignPuddle you want
                                          to save to
                                        In Terms type in the term
                                          for the sign
                                        Click Add
                                        Click on Search by Words or
                                          Search by Signs
                                        In Terms and Titles type
                                          "temp"
                                        Click on temp
                                        Click Delete Entry
                                        Click Delete Entry
                                      
                                      

                                      

                                      Otherwise you might ask Steve if
                                      you export to an SPML file if he
                                      can add them for you.

                                      

                                      I hope his helps

                                      

                                      Regards,

                                      Jonathan

                                      

                                      On
                                        10/2/2013 11:41 AM, Valerie
                                        Sutton wrote:

                                      
                                      SignWriting


                                        List
                                        October 2, 2013
                                        

                                        
                                        Andre, Steve, Charles and
                                          Jonathan -
                                        

                                        
                                        No worries everyone. Thank
                                          you for your messages. And
                                          thank you for bringing this
                                          issue up, which as far as I
                                          know, from my experience, is
                                          specific between the two
                                          programs: SignWriter Studio
                                          and SignPuddle. I noticed this
                                          issue myself a long time ago
                                          and did mention it once to
                                          Jonathan, but there is so much
                                          to do it got sidetracked. It
                                          seems that exporting signs
                                          from the SignWriter Studio
                                          dictionary end up as SignText
                                          in SignPuddle instead of
                                          dictionary entries…so the
                                          signs are not made with
                                          SignMaker, but instead with
                                          SignWriter Studio's
                                          dictionary, but they need to
                                          end up as the equivalent to
                                          signs made with SignMaker… not
                                          as SignText …so we need both
                                          Jonathan's and Steve's help
                                          with this one -
                                        

                                        
                                        Thank you, Andre, by the
                                          way, for your documents - they
                                          are charming! And thank you
                                          for pointing this out to us -
                                        

                                        
                                        Val ;-)
                                        

                                        
                                        --------
                                        

                                        
                                        

                                        
                                        

                                        
                                        

                                          
                                            On Oct 2, 2013, at
                                              10:11 AM, Charles Butler
                                              <[log in to unmask]>


                                              wrote:
                                            
                                            
                                              
                                                
                                                  IF this
                                                      does not work from
                                                      a compatible
                                                      program then the
                                                      compatibility
                                                      program of the
                                                      major SignWriting
                                                      programs need to
                                                      all be made
                                                      compatible. I know
                                                      that this is a
                                                      challenge, but
                                                      making a new
                                                      signwriting
                                                      translator without
                                                      a compatibility
                                                      check seems a
                                                      little futile. If
                                                      the main database
                                                      can't retrieve the
                                                      words, then the
                                                      point of Open
                                                      Source is not
                                                      being fulfilled. 
                                                  

                                                  
                                                  To do
                                                    Open Source means
                                                    that all output from
                                                    a given input must
                                                    be compatible to the
                                                    central databank, in
                                                    the case, SignBank,
                                                    SignPuddle, and all
                                                    of those others
                                                    created. 
                                                  

                                                  
                                                  Is it
                                                    not part of the spec
                                                    of importing signs?
                                                    Is there not a
                                                    command to say
                                                    "which of the
                                                    following compatible
                                                    programs are you
                                                    using to import to
                                                    SignPuddle?" "have
                                                    you contact Steve
                                                    Slevinski to ensure
                                                    that the program
                                                    will in fact import
                                                    your signs in a form
                                                    that is acceptable
                                                    to the data
                                                    retrieval function."
                                                  

                                                  
                                                  Else,
                                                    it is a very large
                                                    learning curve. 
                                                   
                                                  Charles Butler

                                                    [log in to unmask]

                                                    240-764-5748

                                                    Clear writing moves
                                                    business forward.
                                                  

                                                  
                                                  
                                                    
                                                      
                                                        From: Stephen E Slevinski Jr <[log in to unmask]>

                                                          To: [log in to unmask] 

                                                          Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:03
                                                          PM

                                                          Subject: Re: Sign puddle online does not
                                                          translate
                                                          existing words

                                                        
                                                      

                                                        
                                                          
                                                          

                                                          On 10/2/13
                                                          11:37 AM,
                                                          André L wrote:

                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Hello,

                                                           

                                                          Many of the
                                                          words I
                                                          entered in
                                                          sign puddle
                                                          using sign
                                                          studio are not
                                                          displayed in
                                                          the translate
                                                          feature.

                                                          Only the words
                                                          are displayed
                                                          without sign.

                                                          However, with
                                                          a seach on the
                                                          same words,
                                                          the sign is
                                                          displayed.

                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Hi Andre,

                                                          

                                                          The translate
                                                          feature works
                                                          with
                                                          individual
                                                          signs that
                                                          were created
                                                          in SignMaker. 

                                                          

                                                          The translate
                                                          feature does
                                                          not work with
                                                          sign texts
                                                          that were
                                                          created with
                                                          SignText.

                                                          

                                                          Looking at the
                                                          "assis" entry:

                                                          http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=47&sid=4400

                                                          

                                                              

                                                          

                                                          The sign is
                                                          boxed and a
                                                          lower font
                                                          size.  This
                                                          indicates it
                                                          was created
                                                          with
                                                          SignText. 
                                                          Under the
                                                          "Source", you
                                                          can see the
                                                          "SignText
                                                          data" links. 
                                                          This sign will
                                                          not work in
                                                          the current
                                                          translate.

                                                          

                                                          Here is
                                                          "assistant" in
                                                          the same
                                                          dictionary.

                                                          

                                                          

                                                          

                                                          Notice that it
                                                          is not boxed
                                                          and a larger
                                                          font size. 
                                                          This indicates
                                                          is was created
                                                          with
                                                          SignMaker. 
                                                          Under the
                                                          "Search.."
                                                          links, you can
                                                          see the "Sign
                                                          data" links. 
                                                          This sign will
                                                          work in
                                                          translate.

                                                          

                                                          

                                                          So that's the
                                                          problem.  You
                                                          say you
                                                          created this
                                                          with "sign
                                                          studio".  Are
                                                          you talking
                                                          about
                                                          Jonathan's
                                                          SignWriter
                                                          Studio?  Or
                                                          did you use
                                                          SignText?

                                                          

                                                          The solution
                                                          is to move the
                                                          signs from the
                                                          sign text area
                                                          to individual
                                                          signs.  I'm
                                                          not sure the
                                                          best way to do
                                                          this.

                                                          

                                                          How many
                                                          entries are
                                                          like this?

                                                          

                                                          Regards,
                                                          ________________________________________________


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