Hi Valerie, Steve...
Well I havenīt got the
time, the knowledge, the energy to work with more options as I do right now. I
am happy that “find by word” with different options ...and find by symbol is
possible,
For my work at school
there is nothing more needed – as far as I can see now...
All best
Stefan
Von: SignWriting
List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Charles Butler
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Dezember
2013 23:53
An:
[log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: Design for SignPuddle
3: parts-of-speech and morphology of sign language
My
only comment is that I hope all dictionary entries don't require a linguist to
actually put them in or to find them. I have been excited about SignWriting
because it has allowed me to write what I actually sign, not describe it in a
spoken language for a third party.
That will become an impossible burden to
lexicographers. Creating a search engine that can handle a bunch of parameters
is fine, but who is going to go through every single sign and assign them all
possible entries? The burden becomes impossible, and is no longer useful to an
actual user of SignWriting as a writing system, not a linguistic tool.
Charles
Butler
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240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.
From: Rachel Channon <[log in to unmask]>
To:
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013
5:13 PM
Subject: Re: Design for SignPuddle
3: parts-of-speech and morphology of sign language
That
diagram is interesting. hmm.
A complete list of morphological characteristics might be hard – I don’t think
it is as settled as parts of speech.
In my mind,
morphology really translates to: some named characteristic of a group of signs
or a group of morphemes. Practically speaking, in most sign languages, a
sign is almost the same thing as a morpheme – that is in most sign languages
most simple signs are one morpheme. (This is quite different from spoken
languages where many word are made up of two or more morphemes as in disinterested which has at least 3 morphemes:
dis + interest + ed.)
However, this isn’t always true. For example, ASL has a negative
incorporation element of the hand twisting/rotating (as in DON’T-KNOW,
DON’T-WANT) that is at the morpheme level. Compounds are usually
two morphemes. Furthermore, under some theories, classifiers can be considered
to be bundles of many morphemes – the handshape is one or more morpheme, the
location another set, the action another set, orientation…etc etc.
So there
are really at least four elements of this information: 1) How many
morphemes are there in a sign (usually 1, sometimes 2, sometimes many, other choices less
common). 2) are the morphemes
simultaneous or sequential and 3) for each morpheme, what is its morpheme
group, if any? and 4) is the sign as a
whole in some morphological group?
Examples:
DON’T-WANT:
2 simultaneous morphemes: WANT + Negative incorporation
WOMAN: 2
sequential morphemes: GIRL + FINE. The sign is a compound
J-B (job):
2 sequential morphemes: J + B. Each element is fingerspelling; the entire
sign is a fingerspelled loan sign.
MOTHER: 1
morpheme
BAKE-ER: 2
sequential morphemes BAKE + ER (person affix). Some people might classify
this as a compound, some might call it an affixed form
Given this
complexity, it might make sense to set up
1) a simple set of choices that allow multiple
choices, so that I could select for example classifier AND compound. An initial
list:
Classifier,
compound, fingerspelling – one handed, fingerspelling – two handed,
fingerspelled loan sign, character sign, assimilated compound, compound,
negative incorporation, clitic, affix, initialized sign, phrase, inflected
verb, uninflected verb, locational verb, noun-verb pair, repeating or
non-repeating signs, numbers, gestural, pantomimic, iconic. Classifiers are
subdivided in many ways by different linguists, so some linguists might want to
add to the list of classifiers – for example, classifiers for handling objects
vs. motion vs. drawing-in-the-air and so on.
2) a second set of choices specifying number of
morphemes that defaults to 1 and allows numeric write-ins plus the choices
innumerable, uncertain, and many,
3) a fixed choice set for either simultaneous or
sequential,
and 4) a free form area for additional
information.
I hope that
I haven’t forgotten something utterly obvious.
Rachel
From: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Stephen E Slevinski Jr
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013
11:33 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Design for SignPuddle 3:
parts-of-speech and morphology of sign language
Hi
SignWriting List,
This has been a great year, but I'm woeful behind on several project. I
appreciate all of the positive work people have been able to do with
SignPuddle. The long awaited work on SignPuddle 3 continues. Next year
will be a break out year for written sign language across the globe.
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Incubator:Test_wikis_of_sign_languages
I'm finalizing the database for SignPuddle 3. I'm very impressed with
MySQL Workbench and the diagramming tool in particular. (image below)
Database design
--------------
For individual entries, I have designed the parts-of-speech solution, but not
the morphology solution yet.
For parts-of-speech, there is a small list of values for the most common
choices. noun, verb, adjective, adverb, sentence, other. This list
can be translated into other languages.
Additionally, each entry has a separate parts-of-speech text field, which can
be used for a more accurate description or a value outside of the common list.
I was considering a similar strategy for morphology. First, a new table
with a static list of the most common and universal choices. Second, a
freeform text field for each entry for alternate descriptions and complex
analysis.
Researching morphology, it appears there are several kinds of analysis, each
with its own classifications and descriptions. Is a single list too
simplistic to be helpful? I'd appreciate any discussion of the topic.
Morphology list: monosyllable, compound, ... ?
Thanks,
-Steve
PS - Here is part of the working diagram for the database. I haven't
added anything for morphology yet.
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