Bonjour Jonathan,
En fait, j'ai choisi le format SWML comme input à notre système car il m'offre des informations concernat les coordonnées, le high  et le width de chaque glyph dans le pictograph. Ces informations sont très utiles pour:
- la détermination du type de signe (par exemple il est symétrique ou non )
- ainsi que l'identification des positions initiales des mains dans le signe.
J'ai pas encore traiter les autres formats disponibles mais si ils m'offrent les même informations fournies par le SWML pourquoi pas.

Le traitement du SWML se fait automatiquement, n'y a aucune intervention manuelle
La première étape consiste à mettre les symboles dans le bon ordre de lecture en se basant sur un ensemble de règles inspirées de SignSpelling rules.
La deuxième étape consiste à identifier les informations manquantes comme l'emplacement du premier handshape  ainsi que les positions de contact sur le corps du signeur, en vue de générer une représentation linguistique précise et claire du signe. Un autre ensemble de règles a été adopté ici pour gérer le paramètre de location. 
Mais, comme j'ai déjà mentionné dans l'article, dans certains cas il est impossible de déterminer les positions exactes de contact lorsque deux symboles de contact ou plus sont intégrés dans la notation. Prenons comme exemple le ASL notation de "improve", "us" et "prince".  On est obligé ici d'ajouter " the detailed location symboles" dans le fichier SWML dés le début pour avoir des animations correctes.
La troisième étape du système a été consacrée à la conversion automatique de le représentation obtenue en SML
Vous trouverez ci-joint les fichiers SML et SWML de deux exemples de signe simple "politics"  et complexe "export" 
                                    
            
 
 


Concernant votre dernière question, je ne peux pas vous donner une réponse précise car j'ai pas encore traiter des phrases en SW. Mais il peut être possible d'animer un avatar à partir d'un Gif animé puisqu'il est représenté par une série de notations de SW.


Bonne journée,
Yosra 



Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 13:33:12 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FW: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

Bonjour Yosra Bouzid,
     Je viens de jetter un coup d'oeil à http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdf  J'ai quelques questions.

Utilisez-vous encore SWML (SignWriting Markup Language) comme point de départ du mouvement de l'avatar? Avez-vous été en mesure d'utiliser SPML ou le BSW, CSW, KSW ou formats FSW disponible dans SignPuddle?

Quelles étapes manuelles avez vous besoin d'exécuter pour ajouter l'informations manquantes nécessaires pour animer l'avatar? Pourriez-vous s'il vous plaît nous donner des comparaisons d'un exemple simple et d'une plus complexe de SWML et du SML Sign Modeling Language) résultant  et possiblement les étapes nécessaires pour se rendre du SWML inicial au SML final? Avez-vous été en mesure d'automatiser une certaine partie?

Pensez-vous que si nous aurions chaque trame du GIF animée en SignWriting, ca nous ferait la génération de SML plus facile ou plus rapide? Ou que nous pourrions tirer tout autre avantage quelconque de cela pour animer l'avatar?

Cordialement,

Jonathan

Hello Yosra Bouzid,
    I just had a quick look at http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdf  .  I have a few questions.

Are you still using SWML (SignWriting Markup Language) as a starting point for the avatar movement?  Have you been able to use SPML or the BSW, CSW, KSW or FSW formats available in SignPuddle?

What manual steps are required to add the missing information needed to animate the avatar?  Could you please give a simple example and a more complex one comparing the SWML and the resulting SML (Sign Modeling Language) and possibly the steps required to get from the original SWML to the final SML?  How much have you been able to automate some of it?

Do you think that if we had the each frame of the animated GIF in SignWriting, it would make the generation of SML easier or faster?  Or that we could draw any other advantage from this to animate the avatar?

Regards,

Jonathan

On 1/9/2014 4:04 PM, yosra bouzid wrote:
[log in to unmask]">


Bonjour André et tous les membres de SignWriting List,
je voudrais tout d'abord vous féliciter pour le travail réalisé
C'est fascinant de voir ces dessins s'animer en utilisant uniquement des symboles de SignWriting!

En fait, notre approche repose sur l'utilisation d'un agent virtuel pour reproduire fidèlement les gestes manuels et non manuels 
représentés dans une notation de SignWriting.

Par exemple, vous trouverez ci-joint des animations générées à partir des transcriptions des signes:
 - désolé en  langue des signes tunisienne 
 - deaf    en  langue des signes américaine
 - oiseau  en langue des signes française
(je suis désolée car les séquences vidéo ne sont pas de bonne qualité)
(note: je vais les envoyer une par une pour ne pas avoir des problèmes de réception)

Nous avons converti jusqu'à présent plus de 1000 notations et nous allons créer très prochainement
 un site web tuniSigner pour permettre aux participants d'évaluer la qualité des animations produites



Hello André and all the SignWriting List members,
First of all, I want to congratulate you on the excellent job you did
It is amazing to see an animated gif from SignWriting symbols !!


In fact, our work aims to interpret a SignWriting notation through a 3D virtual signer able to perform faithfully the exact gestures represented in the notation.

For example, you will find attached the generated animations from the following transcriptions:
 - sorry (désolé) in Tunisian Sign Lnaguage
 - Deaf                in American Sign Language
 - bird (oiseau)   in French sign language
( I 'm sorry because the video is not of good quality)
(I'll send the video sequences one by one for not receiving error notification in delivering message)

Our system has converted until now more than 1000 notations and we aim to create, very soon, our proper website tuniSigner to allow participants to evaluate the quality of the produced animations




Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 12:25:45 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

Bonjour Mohamed JEMNI,
Bonjour Yosra BOUZID,

il y a présentement une discussion sur le forum général de SignWriting sur la pertinence et la faisabilité d'utiliser des animations en format gif pour enseigner l'écriture de langue signées.  Ces animations mettaient en mouvement les symboles standard de SignWriting. 
 
Une extension de cette idée est d'intégrer ces animations dans les dictionnaires de SignWriting comme sign puddle.  Il serait alors possible de traduire automatiquement de longs textes en mode animation.  Ce concept est très proche de l'avatar que vous avez développé.
 
Pourriez-vous vous joindre à nous pour cette réflexion?
 
Merci
 
André Lemyre
 
En attachement vous trouverez les discussions précédentes et un exemple d'animation.
 

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:42:43 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

Hi Andre,
    One of the great chanllenges of using the current software for animated GIFs is lining up one frame with the next.
Your idea of all frames having head, is a good idea for a center, but if each GIF frame is a different size it will only be a little help for aligning them.  A solution with a fixed width and height per animation would be better (it could be different from one animation to another).

I was thinking on way would be to make a vertical line and a horizontal line in the SignWriting as a reference. It would be have to be big enough to fit all the animation we would want to write. All frames would come out the same size and everything would be referent (centered) to these lines.



M596x597S37a00403x404S37a00403x452S37a00403x500S37a00403x548S37a0e404x595S37a0e452x595S37a0e500x595S37a0e548x595

The down side is that you would have to manually take out the lines afterwards frame by frame.

Or

In SignWriter Studio these lines could even be white just like the background.  (Sorry no support for transparencies in SignWriter Studio at this time).  Then with a graphics program that does transparencies change the white to transparent.  Just don't use the same white (maybe an offwhite) for the hands as for the background and the lines.

Jonathan

On 1/8/2014 12:02 PM, André L wrote:
[log in to unmask]">
Such an editor would take existing signs and allow manipulating them. 
Example: Selecting a vertical hand would allow to puting it horizontal to illustrate a rotation...
 
Such software should not be coded too soon. People need to explore the possibilities.  The proof of concept is starting.
 
This is my current process.
1- Import a dictionary in sign writer studio.
2- Select a sign.
3-Create a copy of the sign.
4-Edit the sign by selecting symbols to duplicate or reposition.
5-If necessary add a head.  This defines where the hands will be located.
6-Copy paste an image of signwriter studio in pain.
7-Resize the paint display.
-----transparency setting would come here----
8-Create several copies of the written sign.
9-Edit each file with the same name and a counter (file 0 is the original written sign with extra transition symbols).  The head is my origin.  It should not move.
10-Feed the files in a gif animator.
 
 

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 09:43:06 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

Yes, it sound like we will need to developing "Animated Signwriting Creator" software where it automatically set up rules and grids template screen to positioning loops cycle for us to follow to prevent errors. And capacity to format transparent background

Dale Archuleta

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From: André L <[log in to unmask]>;
To: <[log in to unmask]>;
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
Sent: Wed, Jan 8, 2014 5:25:35 PM

I agree with you that mixing signwriting and videos will become an habit in some future.  The need cannot be delayed, we would have to redo much work.
 
The template window frame for the gif may be big.  We must allow the character to extend  left and right arms.  That would make a huge white square on top of a video.  Transparency would hide less of the content.
Another example would be animated cartoons.
 
André Lemyre

 

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 07:31:07 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

Andre Lemyre

There are several reasons why transparent background is needed but it is not required. One of examples, if I want to put animated signwriting on the pictures or videos on fixed opacity transparent background to easy on eyes comfort to reading without colors inpurterted matched colors. It would be lot of work if I have to modify GIFS personally. I'm sure some of people has other reasons.

Dale Archuleta

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From: André L <[log in to unmask]>;
To: <[log in to unmask]>;
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
Sent: Wed, Jan 8, 2014 12:15:57 PM

Do you have an example of a need to overlay a sign to something else?
I think that I saw a free gif animator 10 years ago that supported transparent beackground.
I will do a research.
 
André Lemyre
 

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:03:14 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

Hello

I understood most Editors programs doesn't supports transparent backgrounds. I feel its very important to have entirely transparent background because it's able to overlays anything without modification.

Dale Archuleta

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From: André L <[log in to unmask]>;
To: <[log in to unmask]>;
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
Sent: Wed, Jan 8, 2014 4:23:30 AM

Hello,
 
I agree with a reserve.
We may want the white surfaces of the hands and the face to remain white if we display the animation on a coloured background.  Also, in my first  attempts I used Microsoft paint, which does not support transparent background.  Considering that dictionnaries have between 1000 and 5000 words, and there are several contributors, we need to ensure ease of creation to make this project grow.  Standards will be important to avoid redoing the work when someone finds a better way to proceed.
 
Also, I will contact soon the tunisian team who worked on an avatar that translates SignWriting in a 3D animation.   I would start with  Yosra Bouzid and Mohamed Jemni.

Conceptually, our doing gif animation is a subset of what the avatar does in an automated manner.  The avatar may be able to write the gif animations in an automated manner on a large scale.  I such scenario would happen, our best input may become to increase the dictionnaries size to "feed" the avatar or to help it with directional words (example: I give you, you give me). 
 
Concertation will be important before going any further.
 
André Lemyre

Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 19:39:37 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

I also agreed rules needs to be applied before processing the animated dictionary. Such as size, resolute, aligned positioning, etc... I would like offer to add other rule. All GIFS should have transparent backgrounds. In a case, we will not need to reformat entire dictionary in future use.

Dale Archuleta

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From: André L <[log in to unmask]>;
To: <[log in to unmask]>;
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
Sent: Tue, Jan 7, 2014 1:57:39 AM

Hello Jonathan and Valerie,
 
I would prefer to have the animations with the regular dictionaries , just like the optional illustration or video but distinct.
In a distant future, the translate feature could concatenate the animations in long stories.
 
I will spend some time preparing samples of animations to see how symbols could be used (good and bad examples).  I will provide several alternatives for people to compare.  I will make a document to open a discussion establish some standards (not my personal preferences).  We do not want an animation of several words being misaligned, shrinking and growing with blinking  fuzzy heads with several file formats and resolution. 
 
We will need the opinion of Deaf people, programmers, teachers,  SignWriters, children and teenagers for an acceptance test.  Speed will be an issue, I expect Deaf people and fluent signwriters to prefer fast videos (i.e. at a signing speed) while beginners will be lost. 
 
André Lemyre
 

 

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 17:34:07 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

SignWriting List
January 6, 2014

Thank you, Jonathan!

Val ;-)

——


On Jan 6, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Jonathan Duncan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi Val,
    With a few small modifications SignWriter Studio should be able to store and display animated GIFs.  Sounds like an exciting project!! :-)  
    I would be glad to update SignWriter Studio so that it have the animations.
Jonathan

On 1/6/2014 4:01 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
SignWriting List
January 6, 2014

Hello André!
Thank you for this message and for the attached PowerPoint - It is good to know that PowerPoint can accept animated GIFs. It looks great!

I agree that animated SignWriting is valuable as an educational tool…I think others agree too -

Would you, or anyone else, be interested in working on a new project…an Animated SignWriting Dictionary on the web?

Take a look at this web page:


It is a simple page that shows the sign written in SignWriting, and to the right of the sign, is the animated version of it…

We could have an entire site devoted to this Animated SignWriting Dictionary and Animated SignWriting Literature idea…

It could be a relaxed project for fun with no deadlines or any pressure at all (I do not like deadlines or pressure ;-) 

Just whenever the whim hits, do a few animations, and save them in a file. Then we can post them in a new site...

The project could be done for any sign language, and essentially be like a SignPuddle Online but for animated signs -

And that brings up the next question….Steve and Jonathan…could SignPuddle and SignWriter Studio store animated GIFs?

Val ;-)

-------


On Jan 6, 2014, at 9:50 AM, André L <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hello,
Animations might be an intuitive way to teach signwriting to deaf children.
It uses their knowledge of sign language.
The movements make the writing more intuitive, closer to their experience.
There are less symbols to read at once.
It is easy to display on a screen, a computer or on paper.
A teacher can write on a slide with the mouse during the class.
It is possible to create a power point show (does not require power point to be displayed).
 
Here is an example of one animated word.  It could be a sentence, a small movie...
 
 
André Lemyre
 
 

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