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An avatar would be a good addition to signpuddle.  Beginners like me could see if the sign is incorrectly written by looking at the avatar.  An automatically generated animated gif would not highlight mistakes as clearly.
 
André Lemyre
 
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 04:01:45 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

I am truly amazed at the improvement in avatar programming since I first saw it modeled in a SWML project in Brazil in 2001. To have a full-time team working on animating the SW corpus is truly astonishing. If it is possible to interlink this program with the SignPuddles at some point in the future, it will truly be astounding to show the world how useful SW is as an everyday writing system that includes all of the parameters in the process. 
If one uses "confusao" and "complicado" in
 LIBRAS as examples, this would be an example the same handshapes connected in the same way where the only difference is speed of movement.  Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.
        From: André L <[log in to unmask]>
 To: [log in to unmask] 
 Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2014 5:16 PM
 Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
   



 
The avatar is a 3D character that signs like a human.  Like from a video game.
 
It translates English, French, arabic writen texts by using SignWriting descriptions.
 
This is more powerful than animated gif.  The animated gif is closer from the written form.  That is why it can help learning to write.
 
Because the avatar and gif animation are competing solutions for almost the same needs, we need to discuss to put energy at the right place.  
 
The avatar already exists.  It has a huge team.
 
For more information about the avatar refer to the the tunisian                                                          team who                                                          worked on an                                                          avatar that                                                          translates SignWriting        
                                                  in a 3D                                                          animation.  Yosra                                                          Bouzid and                                                          Mohamed Jemni.
http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdfhttp://www.utic.rnu.tn/francais/websign.html I will try tomorrow to find the link were you can interact with the avatar.  I used it once.  It works for ASL, tunisian sign language and more...
 André LemyreDate:
 Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:09:38 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]

I would like to get my fact straight. In our vocabulary, Does avatar means 3d animated interpreter? If so, yes Im very interested to be involved however I feel animated signwriting should be different group away from 3d animated interpreter.  I do believe 3d animated will be more suffice because its most exciting for general average people. 
Dale Archuleta
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
            
                
                    

                    
                        
                            
                            
                                From:
                            
                            André L <[log in to unmask]>;                            

                            
                                To:
                            
                             <[log in to unmask]>;                                                                                                     

                            
                                Subject:
                            
                            Re: Animations to teach signwriting                            

                            
                                Sent:
                            
                            Thu, Jan 9, 2014 5:25:45 PM                            

                        
                            

                            
                                
                                    
                                        Bonjour Mohamed JEMNI,
Bonjour Yosra BOUZID,

il y a présentement une discussion sur le forum général de SignWriting sur la pertinence et la faisabilité d'utiliser des animations en format gif pour enseigner l'écriture de langue signées.  Ces animations mettaient en mouvement les symboles standard de SignWriting.  
 
Une extension de cette idée est d'intégrer ces animations dans les dictionnaires de SignWriting comme sign puddle.  Il serait alors possible de traduire automatiquement de longs textes en mode animation.  Ce concept est très proche de l'avatar que vous avez développé.
 
Pourriez-vous vous joindre à nous pour cette réflexion?
 
Merci
 
André Lemyre
 
En attachement vous trouverez les discussions précédentes et un exemple
 d'animation.
 
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:42:43 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: [log in to unmask]


  
    
  
  
    Hi Andre,

        One of the great chanllenges of using the current software for
    animated GIFs is lining up one frame with the next. 

    Your idea of all frames having head, is a good idea for a center,
    but if each GIF frame is a different size it will only be a little
    help for aligning them.  A solution with a fixed width and height
    per animation would be better (it could be different from one
    animation to another).

    

    I was thinking on way would be to make a vertical line and a
    horizontal line in the SignWriting as a reference. It would be have
    to be big enough to fit all the animation we would want to write.
    All frames would come out the same size and everything would be
    referent (centered) to these lines.

    

    

    

M596x597S37a00403x404S37a00403x452S37a00403x500S37a00403x548S37a0e404x595S37a0e452x595S37a0e500x595S37a0e548x595

    

    The down side is that you would have to manually take out the lines
    afterwards frame by frame.

    

    Or

    

    In SignWriter Studio these lines could even be white just like the
    background.  (Sorry no support for transparencies in SignWriter
    Studio at this time).  Then with a graphics program that does
    transparencies change the white to transparent.  Just don't use the
    same white (maybe an offwhite) for the hands as for the background
    and the lines.

    

    Jonathan

    

    On 1/8/2014 12:02 PM, André L wrote:

    
    
      
      Such an editor would take existing signs and allow
        manipulating them.  

        Example: Selecting a vertical hand would allow to puting it
        horizontal to illustrate a rotation...

         

        Such software should not be coded too soon. People need to
        explore the possibilities.  The proof of concept is starting.

         

        This is my current process.

        1- Import a dictionary in sign writer studio.

        2- Select a sign.

        3-Create a copy of the sign.

        4-Edit the sign by selecting symbols to duplicate or reposition.

        5-If necessary add a head.  This defines where the hands will be
        located.

        6-Copy paste an image of signwriter studio in pain.

        7-Resize the paint display.

        -----transparency setting would come here----

        8-Create several copies of the written sign.

        9-Edit each file with the same name and a counter (file 0 is the
        original written sign with extra transition symbols).  The head
        is my origin.  It should not move.

        10-Feed the files in a gif animator.

         

         

        
          Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 09:43:06 -0800

          From: [log in to unmask]

          Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting

          To: [log in to unmask]

          

          
            
              
                
                  Yes, it sound like we will need to
                    developing "Animated Signwriting Creator" software
                    where it automatically set up rules and grids
                    template screen to positioning loops cycle for us to
                    follow to prevent errors. And capacity to format
                    transparent background
                  Dale Archuleta
                  Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
                
              
            
          
          
             

              
                
                    From:
                   André L <[log in to unmask]>; 

                   To: 
                  <[log in to unmask]>; 

                   Subject:
                   Re: Animations to teach signwriting 

                   Sent: 
                  Wed, Jan 8, 2014 5:25:35 PM 

                
                

                
                  
                    
                      
                        I agree with you that mixing
                          signwriting and videos will become an habit in
                          some future.  The need cannot be delayed, we
                          would have to redo much work.
                           
                          The template window frame for the gif may be
                          big.  We must allow the character to extend 
                          left and right arms.  That would make a huge
                          white square on top of a video.  Transparency
                          would hide less of the content.
                          Another example would be animated cartoons.
                           
                          André Lemyre
                          
                           
                          
                            Date: Wed, 8 Jan
                            2014 07:31:07 -0800
                            From: [log in to unmask]
                            Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
                            To: [log in to unmask]
                            
                            
                              
                                
                                  
                                    Andre Lemyre
                                    There are several
                                      reasons why transparent background
                                      is needed but it is not required.
                                      One of examples, if I want to put
                                      animated signwriting on the
                                      pictures or videos on fixed
                                      opacity transparent background to
                                      easy on eyes comfort to reading
                                      without colors inpurterted matched
                                      colors. It would be lot of work if
                                      I have to modify GIFS personally.
                                      I'm sure some of people has other
                                      reasons.
                                    Dale Archuleta
                                    Sent from Yahoo
                                        Mail on Android
                                  
                                
                              
                            
                            
                               
                                
                                  
                                      From:
                                     André L
                                    <[log in to unmask]>; 
                                     To: 
                                    <[log in to unmask]>;
                                    
                                     Subject:  Re:
                                    Animations to teach signwriting 
                                     Sent:  Wed,
                                    Jan 8, 2014 12:15:57 PM 
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                    
                                      
                                        
                                          Do you have an
                                            example of a need to overlay
                                            a sign to something else?
                                            I think that I saw a free
                                            gif animator 10 years ago
                                            that supported transparent
                                            beackground.
                                            I will do a research.
                                             
                                            André Lemyre
                                             
                                            
                                              Date:
                                              Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:03:14
                                              -0800
                                              From:
                                              [log in to unmask]
                                              Subject: Re: Animations to
                                              teach signwriting
                                              To:
                                              [log in to unmask]
                                              
                                              
                                                
                                                  
                                                    
                                                      Hello
                                                      
                                                      I
                                                        understood most
                                                        Editors programs
                                                        doesn't supports
                                                        transparent
                                                        backgrounds. I
                                                        feel its very
                                                        important to
                                                        have entirely
                                                        transparent
                                                        background
                                                        because it's
                                                        able to overlays
                                                        anything without
                                                        modification. 
                                                      Dale
                                                        Archuleta 
                                                      Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
                                                    
                                                  
                                                
                                              
                                              
                                                 
                                                  
                                                    
                                                       
                                                        From:
                                                       André L
                                                      <[log in to unmask]>;
                                                      
                                                       To:
                                                      
                                                      <[log in to unmask]>;
                                                      
                                                       Subject:

                                                       Re:
                                                      Animations to
                                                      teach signwriting
                                                      
                                                       Sent:
                                                       Wed, Jan 8,
                                                      2014 4:23:30 AM 
                                                    
                                                    
                                                    
                                                      
                                                        
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Hello,
                                                           
                                                          I
                                                          agree with a
                                                          reserve.
                                                          We may want
                                                          the white
                                                          surfaces of
                                                          the hands and
                                                          the face to
                                                          remain white
                                                          if we display
                                                          the animation
                                                          on a coloured
                                                          background. 
                                                          Also, in my
                                                          first 
                                                          attempts I
                                                          used Microsoft
                                                          paint, which
                                                          does not
                                                          support
                                                          transparent
                                                          background. 
                                                          Considering
                                                          that dictionnaries
                                                          have between
                                                          1000 and 5000
                                                          words, and
                                                          there are
                                                          several
                                                          contributors,
                                                          we need to
                                                          ensure ease of
                                                          creation to
                                                          make this
                                                          project grow. 
                                                          Standards will
                                                          be important
                                                          to avoid
                                                          redoing the
                                                          work when
                                                          someone finds
                                                          a better way
                                                          to proceed.
                                                           
                                                          Also, I will
                                                          contact soon
                                                          the tunisian
                                                          team who
                                                          worked on an
                                                          avatar that
                                                          translates SignWriting
                                                          in a 3D
                                                          animation.   I
                                                          would start
                                                          with  Yosra
                                                          Bouzid and
                                                          Mohamed Jemni.
                                                          http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdf
                                                          http://www.utic.rnu.tn/francais/websign.html
                                                          
                                                          Conceptually,
                                                          our doing gif
                                                          animation is a
                                                          subset of what
                                                          the avatar
                                                          does in an
                                                          automated
                                                          manner.  The
                                                          avatar may be
                                                          able to write
                                                          the gif
                                                          animations in
                                                          an automated
                                                          manner on a
                                                          large scale. 
                                                          I such
                                                          scenario would
                                                          happen, our
                                                          best input may
                                                          become to
                                                          increase the
                                                          dictionnaries
                                                          size to "feed"
                                                          the avatar or
                                                          to help it
                                                          with
                                                          directional
                                                          words
                                                          (example: I
                                                          give you, you
                                                          give me). 
                                                           
                                                          Concertation
                                                          will be
                                                          important
                                                          before going
                                                          any further.
                                                           
                                                          André
                                                          Lemyre
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Date:
                                                          Tue, 7 Jan
                                                          2014 19:39:37
                                                          -0800
                                                          From:
                                                          [log in to unmask]
                                                          Subject: Re:
                                                          Animations to
                                                          teach
                                                          signwriting
                                                          To:
                                                          [log in to unmask]
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          I
                                                          also agreed
                                                          rules needs to
                                                          be applied
                                                          before
                                                          processing the
                                                          animated
                                                          dictionary.
                                                          Such as size,
                                                          resolute,
                                                          aligned
                                                          positioning,
                                                          etc... I would
                                                          like offer to
                                                          add other
                                                          rule. All GIFS
                                                          should have
                                                          transparent
                                                          backgrounds.
                                                          In a case, we
                                                          will not need
                                                          to reformat
                                                          entire
                                                          dictionary in
                                                          future use. 
                                                          Dale
                                                          Archuleta
                                                          Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           From:
                                                           André L
                                                          <[log in to unmask]>;
                                                          
                                                           To:
                                                          
                                                          <[log in to unmask]>;
                                                          
                                                           Subject:
                                                           Re:
                                                          Animations to
                                                          teach
                                                          signwriting 
                                                           Sent:
                                                           Tue, Jan
                                                          7, 2014
                                                          1:57:39 AM 
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Hello
                                                          Jonathan and
                                                          Valerie,
                                                           
                                                          I would prefer
                                                          to have the
                                                          animations with
                                                          the regular
                                                          dictionaries ,
                                                          just like the
                                                          optional illustration
                                                          or video but
                                                          distinct.
                                                          In a distant
                                                          future, the
                                                          translate
                                                          feature could
                                                          concatenate
                                                          the animations
                                                          in long
                                                          stories.
                                                           
                                                          I will spend
                                                          some time
                                                          preparing
                                                          samples of
                                                          animations to
                                                          see how
                                                          symbols could
                                                          be used (good
                                                          and bad
                                                          examples).  I
                                                          will provide
                                                          several
                                                          alternatives
                                                          for people to
                                                          compare.  I
                                                          will make a
                                                          document to
                                                          open a
                                                          discussion
                                                          establish some
                                                          standards (not
                                                          my personal
                                                          preferences). 
                                                          We do not want
                                                          an animation
                                                          of several
                                                          words being
                                                          misaligned,
                                                          shrinking and
                                                          growing with
                                                          blinking 
                                                          fuzzy heads
                                                          with several
                                                          file formats
                                                          and
                                                          resolution.  
                                                           
                                                          We will need
                                                          the opinion of
                                                          Deaf people,
                                                          programmers,
                                                          teachers,
                                                           SignWriters,
                                                          children and
                                                          teenagers for
                                                          an acceptance
                                                          test.  Speed
                                                          will be an
                                                          issue, I
                                                          expect Deaf
                                                          people and
                                                          fluent
                                                          signwriters to
                                                          prefer fast
                                                          videos (i.e.
                                                          at a signing
                                                          speed) while
                                                          beginners will
                                                          be lost.  
                                                           
                                                          André Lemyre
                                                           
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          Date:
                                                          Mon, 6 Jan
                                                          2014 17:34:07
                                                          -0800
                                                          From:
                                                          [log in to unmask]
                                                          Subject: Re:
                                                          Animations to
                                                          teach
                                                          signwriting
                                                          To:
                                                          [log in to unmask]
                                                          
                                                          SignWriting
                                                          List
                                                          January
                                                          6, 2014
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Thank
                                                          you, Jonathan!
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Val ;-)
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          ——
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          On Jan 6,
                                                          2014, at 4:27
                                                          PM, Jonathan
                                                          Duncan <[log in to unmask]>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           Hi Val,
                                                          
                                                              With a few
                                                          small
                                                          modifications
                                                          SignWriter
                                                          Studio should
                                                          be able to
                                                          store and
                                                          display
                                                          animated
                                                          GIFs.  Sounds
                                                          like an
                                                          exciting
                                                          project!!  :-)   
                                                              I would be
                                                          glad to update
                                                          SignWriter
                                                          Studio so that
                                                          it have the
                                                          animations.
                                                          Jonathan
                                                          
                                                          On
                                                          1/6/2014 4:01
                                                          PM, Valerie
                                                          Sutton wrote:
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          SignWriting
                                                          List
                                                          January
                                                          6, 2014
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Hello
                                                          André!
                                                          Thank you
                                                          for this
                                                          message and
                                                          for the
                                                          attached
                                                          PowerPoint -
                                                          It is good to
                                                          know that
                                                          PowerPoint can
                                                          accept
                                                          animated GIFs.
                                                          It looks
                                                          great!
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          I agree
                                                          that animated
                                                          SignWriting is
                                                          valuable as an
                                                          educational
                                                          tool…I think
                                                          others agree
                                                          too -
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Would
                                                          you, or anyone
                                                          else, be
                                                          interested in
                                                          working on a
                                                          new project…an
                                                          Animated
                                                          SignWriting
                                                          Dictionary on
                                                          the web?
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Take a
                                                          look at this
                                                          web page:
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          http://www.movementwriting.org/animation/sgn-US/
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          It is a
                                                          simple page
                                                          that shows the
                                                          sign written
                                                          in
                                                          SignWriting,
                                                          and to the
                                                          right of the
                                                          sign, is the
                                                          animated
                                                          version of it…
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          We could
                                                          have an entire
                                                          site devoted
                                                          to this
                                                          Animated
                                                          SignWriting
                                                          Dictionary and
                                                          Animated
                                                          SignWriting
                                                          Literature
                                                          idea…
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          It could
                                                          be a relaxed
                                                          project for
                                                          fun with no
                                                          deadlines or
                                                          any pressure
                                                          at all (I do
                                                          not like
                                                          deadlines or
                                                          pressure ;-) 
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Just
                                                          whenever the
                                                          whim hits, do
                                                          a few
                                                          animations,
                                                          and save them
                                                          in a file.
                                                          Then we can
                                                          post them in a
                                                          new site...
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          The
                                                          project could
                                                          be done for
                                                          any sign
                                                          language, and
                                                          essentially be
                                                          like a
                                                          SignPuddle
                                                          Online but for
                                                          animated signs
                                                          -
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          And that
                                                          brings up the
                                                          next
                                                          question….Steve
                                                          and
                                                          Jonathan…could
                                                          SignPuddle and
                                                          SignWriter
                                                          Studio store
                                                          animated GIFs?
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Val ;-)
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          -------
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          On Jan 6,
                                                          2014, at 9:50
                                                          AM, André L
                                                          <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Hello,
                                                          Animations
                                                          might be an
                                                          intuitive way
                                                          to teach
                                                          signwriting to
                                                          deaf children.
                                                          It uses their
                                                          knowledge of
                                                          sign language.
                                                          The movements
                                                          make the
                                                          writing more
                                                          intuitive,
                                                          closer to
                                                          their
                                                          experience.
                                                          There are less
                                                          symbols to
                                                          read at once.
                                                          It is easy to
                                                          display on a
                                                          screen, a
                                                          computer or on
                                                          paper.
                                                          A teacher can
                                                          write on a
                                                          slide with the
                                                          mouse during
                                                          the class.
                                                          It is possible
                                                          to create a
                                                          power point
                                                          show (does not
                                                          require power
                                                          point to be
                                                          displayed).

                                                           
                                                          Here is an
                                                          example of one
                                                          animated
                                                          word.  It
                                                          could be a
                                                          sentence, a
                                                          small movie...
                                                           
                                                           
                                                          André Lemyre
                                                           
                                                           
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          ________________________________________________

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