Hi Charles,
    I watched your talk again today.  I realized that what I call "Sign Sequence" you call "Sign Spelling".  I guess it is "SignSpelling Sequence".  So I didn't understand that the first time.  So now after this more attentive listening to your talk, I see that you definitely are using SignSpelling Sequence for all your entries and that you are doing them manually the same way Val suggested in the SignSpelling Guidelines.  
    Am I correct in my understanding that which symbols come first in the sorted list is different from the way SignPuddle is sorting? 

Your sorting would be sorted by the
1. First by symbol in the sign sequence's basegroup of the first hand in the SignSpelling Sequence
2. What figure (See the individual chapters)?  I need more explanation about this one.
3. The for each basegroup sort by fill

4. In each fill sorting, sort by rotation ( but not distinguishing between right and left hands. 
I see you number both from 1 to 8 in instead of numbering them all from 1 to 16)

5. Location symbol. comes after hand symbol when comparing.
From first to last
No Body - hand to hand, head, body

5.1 Location sorting on hand contact order doesn't seem to be defined yet

5.2 Head location sorting

5.3 Body body
Indicate the location of the body, placing the graphic in the left lane, the middle lane, or
right lane. - Need this explained I'm not understanding.
Needs to have numbering for which comes first for body location


6 - What is contact? No order, any can come first.

7.7 - Finger bends (ie no order)?No order, any can come first.

8 - Movement? Vertical, then Horizontal, then Arc - up / down, up / abaxo + rotation, then up / down bow
after / below + arc rotation, face bow, face bow + rotation

Need to define which come first within the vertical, and which come first within the horizontal, etc.  Or just current default currently in ISWA2010
Need to define movement symbols in other planes, etc.

9 Timing.  Which comes first?

10 Faces and posture.
Not sure about this one, would like more explanation.

Also you need to output a dictionary that has,


Do you currently have any way of keeping all this information in Sign Puddle?
SignWriter Studio can do

I was hoping to add a second SignLanguage to do a dictionary with two sign languages but I haven't programmed that yet.

I am still working on finalizing the output for the dictionary.  So I am looking for your input whether you use it or not.

Please fill me in where I am lacking and correct me where I am wrong.



On 8/12/2014 4:47 PM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:
[log in to unmask]" type="cite"> Hi Charles,
    I enjoyed your symposium “Ordering Signs in Dictionaries” http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.htmlgro
I was wondering if Steve and Val had been able to find you a solution.  Val mentioned that she thought that Steve would have an easy way for you to do your sorting.

I would like to implement a sorting algorithm for SignWriter Studio as I haven't implemented any yet and I am starting to produce a Honduran Sign Language dictionary. 

I understood how you are doing the ordering comparing hand shapes, comparing rotations, comparing facings, comparing facial areas, etc.  I like it very much.

A couple things I wanted to ask.

For your algorithm to work properly does the sign sequence of a sign need to be filled out?  I am getting the impression that your sorting could sort dictionaries without the sign sequence, is this assumption correct?  Or would it sort signs according to the symbols in sign sequence?  It doesn't seem to take into account the order of the symbols in the sign sequence, is this correct?

Also do you have another document comparing the other symbols like movement symbols, etc?  If so could you send it to me?



email: [log in to unmask]
         [log in to unmask]
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
Tel USA: (347)875-8442
Skype: yojoduncan

SignWriter Studio


email: [log in to unmask]
         [log in to unmask]
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
Tel USA: (347)875-8442
Skype: yojoduncan

SignWriter Studio



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