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On 8/13/2014 6:18 PM, Ingvild Roald wrote:
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Hi all, 

My undestanding at the moment is that a dictionary should be ordered by 

1) the sign spelling sequence

2) inside this sequence, the ordering should be done by a system agreed upon by all.

This would be something like (but much more complex than) a sequence inside a roman alphabeth where different diacritics should follow in a special odrer. 

I think that the spelling sequence, which is based on the the timing inside a sign, is important and natural.

The order in which the symbols are written, on the other hand, is not important and may differ widely from scribe to scribe. The sign is not written until it is finished, the symbols may be adjusted many times before that. Therefore it is very hard to automate the spelling sequencing at this moment. Maybe in anothe forty years?
Yes, automating spelling sequence according to timing inside a sign and the syllables like shown in SignSpelling Guidelines 2008 would be very hard.

Regards,
Jonathan
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Ingvild

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Den 14. aug. 2014 kl. 00:03 skrev "Jonathan Duncan" <[log in to unmask]>:

Hi Val,SignSpelling Guidelines 2008
    Thank you for explaining this.  I am familiar with the sign sequence.  It is implemented in SignWriter Studio but I is not currently using it to sort.  Also it being part of the the FSW where practically the first symbol of a sign sequence is compared to first symbol  of another sign sequence, and so one with the second, third symbol in the sequence until one is before the other in the default ISWA 2010 order.  Once the sign sequence is inputed, they can be easily sorted with any text sorting algorithm.
    What I got out of Charles talk is that he is proposing a different order for sorting the symbols than the default ISWA 2010 order.   Basically it would be assigned a different sort weight to each of the symbols in ISWA2010 than those currently being the default.

Thank you for sharing the link  to the SignSpelling Guidelines 2008.  It will be useful for comparing both types of sorting.

If you don't mind my asking what was it the you thought that Steve had that could help Charles with his sorting order just as he was finishing his talk?
Thanks

Jonathan

On 8/13/2014 1:52 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
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August 13, 2014

OK.  There is the world of software, that has many users - software may need to be flexible

There seem to be two needs…

1. There is the need for sorting sign-dictionaries and sign-vocabulary lists

2. There is the need for sorting for sign-liguistics characteristics - for linguistic databases

That is why Steve developed the flexible SignSpelling Column feature in SignPuddle...So writers can choose the sequence they want to sort with…

In SignPuddle, when someone asks for a group of signs and they are listed…what order are they listed? If the writer of the signs has entered a SignSpelling Sequence for each sign, those signs are placed first in the list and are sorted by the sequence stipulated by the writer…any other signs in the list that do not have a SignSpelling stipulated, are listed after, and are in a guessed order …I think that is the way the software works ;-)

Here is how I personally see sorting signs for dictionaries…I started a 2010 book, but never finished it, but here is the 2008 booklet -


SignSpelling Guidelines 2008
http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf

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