Considering that having the head rims currently sorted counterclockwise is an interesting artifact from Receptive SignWriting, I would vote for changing them to clockwise by default as the right hand is usually dominant and the rotation around the face falls clockwise Expressively, though I can be persuaded with looking art signs like "beautiful" which rotate the hand around the phase counterclockwise with the right hand and clockwise with the left hand. 

I'm looking at how my hand moves with various signs and movement "inward" seems to be the most prevalent in rotation, so if I sort by the right hand it comes out counterclockwise, if by the left, it is clockwise. However, that may be confusing to a reader. 

Trying to sort a given sign and having to take into account a non-dominant hand in the sorting is a challenge. If working from citation, a signer might be left-handed and so the sign cited by that individual would be written counter to the prevailing study but accurate for the person. 
 
Charles Butler
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Clear writing moves business forward.


From: Stephen E Slevinski Jr <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

On 8/13/14, 9:47 PM, André L wrote:
sorting by the rotation of the hand may not be effective in LSQ because of directional signs. 

Could you discuss this more?  I have an idea, but first some background.

Regarding the mechanics of sorting, the first part of a sign's name is an (invisible) ordered string of symbols that default to the standard ISWA 2010 collation everywhere.  The signs will sort properly within an Excel spreadsheet, in any database (SQLite, MySQL, ...), in any programming language (JavaScript, Python, ...).  Anywhere ASCII is supported, the signs will sort according to the standard ISWA 2010.

Creating a customized collation order of the ISWA 2010 is possible with a symbol key rewrite. 

For the ASCII, a small text file contains the rules. 
Key S10f becomes S10e
Key S10e becomes S10f

For the Unicode, entries in the DUCET table are used to adjust collation weights.
U+FD82F becomes U+FD92E
U+FD92E becomes U+FD92F

For advanced collation needs, you can rewrite entire keys.  Charles could rotate the Head Rims clockwise rather than counter-clockwise if he needed. 

Head Rims


The clockwise sort can be enabled with the following rules.
Key S30007 becomes S30001
Key S30006 becomes S30002
Key S30005 becomes S30003
Key S30003 becomes S30005
Key S30002 becomes S30006
Key S30001 becomes S30007

Whatever Detailed Location symbols Charles requires, he can customize the sorting to an order of his choosing.

For Andre, regarding rotation and sorting, that is possible with a specially written SignSpelling Sequence.  Any rotation used in the 2-dimensional sign box could be ignored for the SignSpelling Sequence. 

For the sign, in the sign box we would have this 2-dimensional arrangement:


For the sorting, the symbols in the SignSpelling Sequence do not need to be the same symbols as in the sign box.  Here is an order that would sort the index hand above the head without rotation.

First is, then 


Historically, sorting has always been an issue for every script.  In 11th century, the Song Chinese developed the movable type printing press.  Great printing houses each developed their own blocks and unique characters.  Many words were common between all houses and some words were unique for each house.  A huge volume of blocks were accumulated over time.  Sorting these blocks became an issue.  For complex blocks, little slips of paper were attached to the block to properly explain the sorting.

SignWriting is very similar, except for uniquely carved 2-dimensional blocks, we have a name with 2-dimensional order.  These names can be created, copied, and searched with ease.  For sorting, instead of a slip of paper explaining the sort, we have an invisible prefix that orders according to a theory.

I believe Valerie's design of the SignSpelling Sequence is the most productive theory.  I believe it is the easiest to use for readers, writers, and programmers.  Outside of Valerie's theory, a wide variety of possibilities can be supported in the standard model.




Regards,
-Steve
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