Hi Val and  Steve,


When Stefan posts his message on the SW list, why is this often happening below ?


M558x548S30a00482x482S14c21473x522S14c20535x482S28909509x511S33e00482x482 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


De : Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]>
Répondre à : "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <[log in to unmask]>
Date : Sat, 01 Aug 2015 16:58:08 +0200
À : <[log in to unmask]>
Objet : AW: Report from Steve's desk

Hi Steve,


yes --very glad to hear from you ..and yes I enjoyed the symposium ..and there have been quite a few I could not follow ..So I am interested to look at the videos again and to ask for more information.


As you already know I startet with the "Rand-Keyboard" Prensentation ..and thanks to Yair`s kind support I am on my way to get more familiar with that although there is still a long way to go to really



My question to you about FSW:


M558x548S30a00482x482S14c21473x522S14c20535x482S28909509x511S33e00482x482 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 S38700463x496 M523x558S20500513x543S18011487x528S31400482x482S33f10490x502S18019489x538 S38700463x496 M535x567S34800482x488S31400482x488S10043505x533S20500495x556S30120482x477 M588x519S36500437x482S34c00466x482S34800497x482S36100527x483S30007527x483S10011560x489S22a07568x476S2f900577x467 M543x532S36e00477x520S37803513x477S15a12487x472S15d1a484x453S37803453x496S3770b521x503S3780b454x466S31400482x482S33e10493x503 S38700463x496 M542x538S33e00482x482S15d20520x511S26600526x475S2f900527x463S31400482x482 M572x603S14c40466x525S14c48443x539S2fb04468x595S2e74c451x578S30a00446x482S34000446x482S2e700475x564S34c00519x482S11511545x501S20e00554x536S22f04547x555M561x557S14c01518x530S14c09456x530S26506546x538S26512436x534S36e00477x519S30a00483x482S34010493x505 M527x577S33100482x483S20311503x498S23003501x520S37906476x575 S38800464x496 M555x537S33e00482x483S10001509x507S10009468x507S21100522x498S21100465x498S28807535x501S2881f445x498S30a00482x483



 As far as I understand ...Your development of FSW - Data allows people in the future to post messages written in SignWriting on any (??) website on the Internet once the Unicode symbols are ...what? People do not longer have to open these documents in a special SignWriting Program but can look at nicely presented SignWriting notations.  Is that correct?


I personally like the freedom to create documents with different workflows ...So to type directly with the "Rand-Keyboard" would be fun. On the other hand I do have a lot of practice and therefore this method is pretty effective, I look for a program that "translates" search-words by SignWriting-Entries...and look whether  YOU  opened the option to copy the FSW data.

Can you please explain..what are the methods at the moment to get this kind of Data?


As far as I know:


1) "Rand-Keyboard"

2) SignMaker 2015

3) SignPuddle   (Dictionary)



4) SignPuddle Literature Dictionary   (love that !!)


AS1eb20S15a37S26a07S20e00M527x522S15a37473x483S1eb20486x503S20e00498x492S26a07506x477 AS18720S18720S2d606S2d61eS20300S20300S2fb00M526x540S18720504x511S18720479x511S2d606504x484S2d61e474x485S2fb00492x478S20300506x460S20300480x460 AS18040S18048S26500S2f900S36100M519x584S18040488x569S18048466x528S26500489x549S2f900491x541S36100482x482 M533x530S15a56506x493S14c52480x474S20e00491x501S26c00484x515S22522467x470



Last question not feel pushed...You think some time  the wonderful  SignMail option will work again??  


All best








-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Stephen E Slevinski Jr
Gesendet: Samstag, 1. August 2015 16:27
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Report from Steve's desk


Hi SignWriting list,


I hope everyone enjoyed the symposium this year.  I enjoyed every

presentation I understood, and even the ones I didn't.  I look forward

to the English translations.


In the past 3 weeks, I have created 5 presentations.  I was only

supposed to create 2 for the symposium, but new topics kept coming up

and I was in the groove.


Please feel free to contact me on the list or privately about any of

these presentations.




The SignWriting Stack 2015


This is a general overview of the technologies related to SignWriting

and the best practices for online use and development.




The Use and Structure of SignMaker 2015


SignMaker is an amazing sign editor and dictionary.  SignMaker

highlights many of the advantages to the Formal SignWriting design. The

searching possible and the huge sorted dictionaries make me smile.


I have it on my desktop and use it to view/edit whatever Formal

SignWriting strings I see.  I smiled when I saw Stefan's name sign

appear in well formed FSW.


For an even deeper analysis of the FSW, I use the sw10js API page. API

stands for application programming interface.  On the API page, you can

analyze symbol keys, FSW strings, and query strings.




SignWriting in an ASCII World


This presentation goes in depth into the ASCII markups and definitions. 

It explains the small subset of Regular Expressions that SignWriting

leverages for definition and searching.


SignWriting data has been stable in Formal SignWriting since January 12,

2012 in ASCII.  The ASCII implementation is half the size of an

equivalent Unicode solution.  It is 4 times faster to process ASCII than

the equivalent Unicode.




What about Unicode? (Part 1)


Issues with SignWriting in Unicode 8


I haven't seriously considered Unicode since 2011.  We have different

ideas.  The history of the Unicode 8 proposal and a detailed analysis

can be found in this presentation.


I was fortunate to be able to attend a Unicode Technical Committee just

this past week.  It was a group of about a dozen experts in script

encoding, linguistics, and character encoding.  Everyone introduced

themselves by their name and then the company, such as MicroSoft, Apple,

Google, IBM, Adobe, ...


I was proud to introduce myself as Steve Slevinski, Center for Sutton

Movement Writing.  Val made this trip possible.  Thanks Val.


I was informed that there are at least 2 people working on SignWriting:

one at MicroSoft and one at Google.  They will be using the tools I've

provided to implement their solution.  They don't know how to do it, so

they were interested in my work and grateful for the information I have



Over 2 days, I was able to present 4 different times.  I used the above

slideshow twice on the first day.  We argued and discussed and I earned

their respect.


I was able to explain my issues with SignWriting in Unicode 8.  They now

agree that the Unicode 8 proposal is insufficient and has serious issues.




What about Unicode? (Part 2)


Thanks to the UTC


After the first day, I rushed back to the hotel and prepared a second

slideshow.  It's much shorter, but there are several powerful slide that

silenced and room and one person exclaimed.  "Wow. That's huge." (slide

6).  This slide was the turning point.


Now there is another Unicode expert who is interested in working on

SignWriting.  They asked that I provide several examples in my various

formats: PNG image, Formal SignWriting, PUA Plane 15, and PUA Plane

16.   They admitted that we do things with SignWriting that they can not

do with Unicode.  I told them that we are in production; we can write

every sign language and any facial expression today.


They agreed to seriously consider my proposals.  Because we have such a

large set of data, they agreed to the idea of 1) being able to convert

from FSW to a future Unicode design and 2) being able to convert back to

FSW from the future Unicode design.


Full speed ahead with Formal SignWriting.  3 1/2 years of stability and

forward compatibility with Unicode 9, 10, 11 or whenever we have a

workable Unicode solution.


So the Unicode process has been successfully rebooted.  Unicode 8 is

fine to use for prototyping, and this is what the big corporations

needed to begin using SignWriting, but Unicode 8 for SignWriting needs

major revisions and additional work.  They could simply adopt my work,

but they are uncomfortable with freeform 2-dimensional creation of signs.


We who use SignWriting are playing the long game.  We still have first

generation writers.  Imagine the written sign language world when we

have several generations with the tradition of writing!


I plan to write a more detailed blog for Gerard about the future ofsign

language Wikipedia projects and how Unicode fits into the design.


Now I'm going on a weeks vacation.










Valerie Sutton

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