Hi Steve,


thank you very much for your detailed answer. Of course I am not able to understand anyhing of the software-secrets behind these developements but I will share your answer with our delegs team. ;-))


Thanks for explaining to visualize FSW Data as SignWriting ... I checked it with the Rand-Keyboard.  Wow ..this is cool.


AS15a11S26500S30007M536x518S30007482x483S15a11513x478S26500511x460 M521x547S33100482x483S20310506x500S26b02503x520 AS15a10S2ff00S2b700M535x518S2ff00482x483S15a10523x485S2b700514x453 AS18527S1852fS20500S2fb00S22a07S22a11S14c27S14c2fM555x530S18527502x503S1852f476x503S20500493x490S2fb00491x481S22a07516x498S22a11471x496S14c27529x471S14c2f445x470



Can you look for the meaning of a sign once you know the FSW Data of a sign?



Thanks for informing me about the problems with SignMail.  I am sorry to hear that has been such a neat way to exchange messges with my students. But we will find a workaround with screenshots and gifs  since it is so easy and no problem at all to create a message with the delegs Editor ... Thanks for your feedback.



Have a wonderful Sunday


Best wishes




Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Stephen E Slevinski Jr
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. August 2015 01:08
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: AW: Report from Steve's desk


On 8/1/15 9:58 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:

Hi Steve,


Hi Stefan,

Sorry for the late reply.  I'm back from vacation now.

As you already know I startet with the "Rand-Keyboard" Prensentation ..and thanks to Yair`s kind support I am on my way to get more familiar with that although there is still a long way to go to really

Hi Stefan,

I've appreciated all of your comments and investigations of the Rand keyboard.  It is a very important development.  I was able to reference the keyboard several times when I presented to the Unicode Technical Committee a week and a half ago.

Your perspective and creations are appreciated.



My question to you about FSW:


M558x548S30a00482x482S14c21473x522S14c20535x482S28909509x511S33e00482x482 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 77x457S3 7 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 S38700463x496 M523x558S20500513x543S18011487x528S31400482x482S33f10490x502S18019489x538 S38700463x496 M535x567S34800482x488S31400482x488S10043505x533S20500495x556S30120482x477 M588x519S36500437x482S34c00466x482S34800497x482S36100527x483S30007527x483S10011560x489S22a07568x476S2f900577x467 M543x532S36e00477x520S37803513x477S15a12487x472S15d1a484x453S37803453x496S3770b521x503S3780b454x466S31400482x482S33e10493x503 S38700463x496 M542x538S33e00482x482S15d20520x511S26600526x475S2f900527x463S31400482x482 M572x603S14c40466x525S14c48443x539S2fb04468x595S2e74c451x578S30a00446x482S34000446x482S2e700475x564S34c00519x482S11511545x501S20e00554x536S22f04547x555 M561x557S14c01518x530S14c09456x530S26506546x538S26512436x534S36e00477x519S30a00483x482S34010493x505 M527x577S33100482x483S20311503x498S23003501x520S37906476x575 S38800464x496 M555x537S33e00482x483S10001509x507S10009468x507S21100522x498S21100465x498S28807535x501S2881f445x498S30a00482x483



 As far as I understand ...Your development of FSW - Data allows people in the future to post messages written in SignWriting on any (??) website on the Internet once the Unicode symbols are ...what?

Unicode is not a magic bullet, but Unicode is the world standard.  It is best to use a Unicode solution for your characters.   Formal SignWriting is a Unicode string that has been stable for 3 1/2 years.  You can use Formal SignWriting on any website today with varying degrees of work.  The Rand Keyboard has a built in viewer that can be used on most websites.

As far as I know, there is no workable alternative to Formal SignWriting.  Some people still use an XML solution, but I wouldn't advice new projects to use XML for SignWriting, unless it's SVG.

I recently argued against the Unicode 8 release.

People do not longer have to open these documents in a special SignWriting Program but can look at nicely presented SignWriting notations.  Is that correct?

That is the ultimate promise of Unicode, but not quite.

In theory, I have been promised a bi-directional conversion from the Formal SignWriting of today into a Unicode solution of the future.  That means that all of our current data would be compatible, but not quite.

Formal SignWriting correctly allows for the freeform positioning of symbols.  The user picks the position of the symbols.  This design feature has some frustrations, but the advantages far outweigh the cost.

A future Unicode design of SignWriting may not allow the freeform positioning of symbols.  People have talked about this for years.  The idea is that a complex font will handle what the sign looks like.  This will allow for people with different fonts to share the same data and have the signs look different, but reasonable to the viewer.  I have been a skeptic of this approach from the start. 

So the Unicode process is resetting I hope.  Some people are going to try a future Unicode design.  Others will investigate my 2 Unicode proposals.  We are several years away from anything useful in Unicode.


I personally like the freedom to create documents with different workflows ...So to type directly with the "Rand-Keyboard" would be fun. On the other hand I do have a lot of practice and therefore this method is pretty effective, I look for a program that "translates" search-words by SignWriting-Entries

I appreciate different workflows as well.  Whether it's the keyboard or mouse, whether you search by spoken language or you search by sign language with symbols, locations, and orders; the important part is to write.

I especially appreciate writing fast and touch-typing in particular.  I would love to have a touch-typing manual for the Rand-Keyboard.  The manual should be repetitive and thorough.  After several weeks of drills, muscle memory would start to develop.

...and look whether  YOU  opened the option to copy the FSW data.

Can you please explain..what are the methods at the moment to get this kind of Data?


As far as I know:


1) "Rand-Keyboard"

2) SignMaker 2015

3) SignPuddle   (Dictionary)



4) SignPuddle Literature Dictionary   (love that !!)


AS1eb20S15a37S26a07S20e00M527x522S15a37473x483S1eb20486x503S20e00498x492S26a07506x477 AS18720S18720S2d606S2d61eS20300S20300S2fb00M526x540S18720504x511S18720479x511S2d606504x484S2d61e474x485S2fb00492x478S20300506x460S20300480x460 AS18040S18048S26500S2f900S36100M519x584S18040488x569S18048466x528S26500489x549S2f900491x541S36100482x482 M533x530S15a56506x493S14c52480x474S20e00491x501S26c00484x515S22522467x470


There is the ASL Wikipedia.  You can get FSW data from SignWriter Studio.  I believe Rachel Channon will have the FSW data available with the SignTyp linguistic coding system data set in the future.

I hope to see others soon.

One secret you may not know is that FSW data responds well to a double click.  This will select an entire sign.  You can either double-click the visible ASCII coding as above or you can double click the SVG in the newer FormalSignWriting applications.  After you double click to select the sign (which may or not make a visible change), you can right-click (or press-and-hold) to access the sub-menu to copy the data.  This works in the new SignMaker 2015,  the SignWriting 2010 Javascript Library, and should work with the ASL Wikipedia and the Rand-keyboard.  You'll have different levels of success based on the operating system and browser. 


Last question not feel pushed...You think some time  the wonderful  SignMail option will work again??  


Smile.  SignMail.  Such a great idea, but such the wrong way I did it.  SignMail is not compatible with the new servers and the enhanced security.  I have investigated SignMail for several hours and several days, trying to find a way to make it work.  I have been successful in the past, but this last time I lost the trail.  Somewhere in the middle, the emails go poof.  I need to rebuild SignMail from the ground up.  Unfortunately, it's a lower priority.  Luckily, the newer tools are making development easier for myself or another programmer who decides to tackle the idea of SignMail.




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