Print

Print


No worries. I can’t answer that question either as I am not a native of ThaiSL. ;-)

So that just means that is something to watch out for in the future. :-)


Adam

On May 24, 2021, at 1:09 PM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi Adam,

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to answer this as I am not native and definitely not deaf. I recently tried to study ThaiSL in order to understand the social problems facing the deaf community, one of the many problems facing people with disabilities in Thailand. And personally, I am also a lover of learning different types of language. Anyway, going back to the question you asked me if the facial expressions were obligatory.

As far as I have studied, ThSL is in the same language family as the ASL, actually a creole of the ASL. Therefore, the language structure and hand gestures are very close to each other, including facial expressions as well. And yes, emotive expressions are obligatory but not for all signs like those of the ASL. Additionally, ThSL speakers tend to use mouth movements in accordance with Thai spoken words like you do. For example, the GOOD LUCK sign in ThSL could be translated as /chok-dee/ in Thai language, so the demonstrator made the "mouth open wrinkled" to refer to the vowel /o/ in /chok/ which means LUCK. Then she made the "mouth smile wrinkled" to refer to the expression of GOOD. I assume that the "mouth open wrinkled" is not necessary but the smile is.

If I have the opportunity to meet native ThSL users, I will ask them for more information.

Sutthikhun

On Tue, 25 May 2021 at 02:30, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hello Sutthikhun,

I have a question for you about GOOD LUCK. Are the facial expressions obligatory, meaning does the sign become unable to be understood if they are not included?

I realize that this is something that can only be answered by a native user, and I don’t know if you are or not. The reason I ask is that I know that in ASL there are often has facial expressions that are necessary for signs to be understood, but not always. I have found that “emotive” expressions are not necessary unless writing a narrative or story. So a dictionary entry might not necessarily have “emotive" expression written even if the videos have them. (I also include mouth movement left over from spoken languages as “emotive” expressions as well, but there may be times where it is an obligatory expression instead, so it is left up to the native users to decide.)

<namesign.png>
Adam

On May 24, 2021, at 12:16 PM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Exactly, that was me adding some Thai signs to the ThSL SP Online after you suggested me for the website. It's so fun and useful. 😄 Your transcription is also interesting and the comment sounds reasonable to me. Thanks again! Anyway, I don't understand the term "one compound sign". I'm curious about how the compound form would be if the two signs were used together?

<thank you.png>
Sutthikhun

On Mon, 24 May 2021 at 23:48, Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
SignWriting List
May 24, 2021

Here is how I would write the Thai sign for Good Luck, based on the video:

Thai sign for GOOD LUCK on video

There are two signs really. In the first sign, I chose a different handshape and I placed the fingers directed down towards the palm of the base hand so we can see that the fingers are directed down. I used a Touch Star to show contact with the fingers. I also chose not to write a thumb for the base hand since it is not important to the sign.

And I did not put an UP arrow between the two signs since we read down the page so the next sign assumes the hand had to move up.


<Thai_Sign_GOOD_LUCK_2.png>


There are other ways to see this. If the two signs are always used together, it could be written as one compound sign, and that would look different.

I placed this writing in the Thailand SignPuddle Online so now there are two different entries for GOOD LUCK. Scroll down to see them:

Good luck

Val ;-)


________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]

Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]

Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1


________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]

Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]

Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1


________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]

Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1