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Hi Andre and everyone, --- let me just add one comment to this question of how to write the flat hand .... Well, we can distinguish between a "theoretical" problem and a real spelling challenge of a performed sign... From time to time people show up and ask for a solution of a "How would you write this or that ..." and they just perform some kind of weird hand shape or movement which has nothing to do with real Sign Language whatsoever. So for the practical aspect it should be no problem at all to read and understand a sign describing the flat hand fingers downward back of hand outward. In DGS (German Sign Language) there is a sign "discipline" both palms of the flat hand touching the upper leg at the side. Just go to the German SignPuddle dictionary search by word " Disziplin" and find this sign. In these cases I write those signs for my students and vote for this stick figure spelling to allow a quick and easy reading ... Stefan -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Dezember 2010 20:15 An: [log in to unmask] Betreff: Re: QUESTION...Palm facing fingers pointing down SignWriting List December 7, 2010 Hello Andre and Charles and everyone - The discussion is a good one, and Charles is right that our system has all the symbols we need to communicate what we need to communicate... Let me explain... 1. When the thumb-line is on the white side of the symbol (the palm area) it means the thumb is extending FORWARD: