That still does not answer the question, where does one put the thumb for the extreme orientation. By visualization it would belong on the white side of the palm for the extreme orientation, but that is reserved for a thumb sticking out at right angles. If the picture you put as an example had a thumb on it, where would you put it. the left palm clearly has the thumb sticking out to the left, but the right hand the palm is on the wrong side as it would be pointing toward the reader, not away from them.


From: Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: QUESTION...Palm facing fingers pointing down

I am going to try and see if I can answer your question, Charles, because Valerie is very busy these past few days tending to her mother. So, if I understand your question correctly, you are asking how can you write clearly, for example, if the right hand is facing outward to the right and make sure that it isn't mistaken for the left hand. Is that correct?

Since it is something that is rare in ASL at least, it is understandable that it can be confusing. I do know of a sign in Bangkok Sign Language that has such and extreme orientation of the hand, but I just can't remember the mean of the sign at the moment. ;-) The first writing is probably what your question is about how does one know if it is the left hand or the right hand with an extreme orientation. 
The way that I would write it so that it would be more clear is by adding the arm line to it.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if the earlier writing would be used because it is a sign that is known in Bangkok Sign Language. However, if it were an unusual occurrence that needs clarification, I believe the latter would be suffice. 

I hope this help. If you have more questions, feel free to ask. :-)


On Jun 10, 2011, at 8:35 AM, Charles Butler wrote:

Valerie, I am really confused here.  

Please write the right hand with the palm facing right with a thumb attached.  Then write the same right hand with the palm facing left with a thumb attached. 
Then write the left hand with the palm facing left with a thumb attached. Then write the same left hand with the palm facing left with a thumb attached.

How does one tell the extreme rotation from the regular rotation of the hand? The left and the right hand are mirror image of each other but the thumb is on the opposite side. 

Please show this.


From: Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2010 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: QUESTION...Palm facing fingers pointing down

SignWriting List
December 7, 2010

Hello Andre and everyone -

First, the 8 rotations clockwise, and the 8 flopped hands that rotate counter-clockwise, do not represent right or left hands. They are simply every possible rotation and flop in SignWriting, for you to choose from - but sometimes they are right hands and sometimes they are left hands -

The hands at the top that point up, are right and left...but as the rotations move down towards the bottom, it can switch - Here is a new diagram explaining this. I have to go to an appointment, but later today I will answer your question about how to write the positions you showed us in the photos -

Please see my attached diagram...