Ups – excuse me Valerie, ..
I answered Erikas message
before I started to read yours.
Yes - I agree with everything
you explain. You read my spellings correctly – I describe a different
performing due to the fact that I felt uncomfortable with the first idea. Now
after I watched the original performance of Kathmandu the video I I feel confirmed. The signer hits the back of his right
hand index hinged on the palm of the left hand.
For the sake of a easy to write and easy to
read spelling I agree with you to follow Adams version ;-)
Perhaps there is no need to insist on detailed
writing in this case since you have to be informed in order to understand the
sign “Kathmandu” representing the tower with
a spiral staircase containing 213 steps. ;-)))
All best
Stefan
Von: SignWriting
List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. März 2013
20:49
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: AW: Erika's
SignWriting..
SignWriting List
March 29, 2013
Actually, in this instance, I would choose Adam's writing below, based
on what I saw in the picture...because Stefan's writing does not tell me the
same information - Adam's writing is saying that the hand is sitting on top of
the palm, but Stefan's writing looks like the hand is above the palm slightly
and not really sitting on the palm, plus the right arm looks like it is in
front of the left hand, and not really sitting on top of the left hand…the
darkened forearm represents an arm in front of the other - so I would assume
that the touch contact means that the wrist of the right arm is touching the
little finger side of the left hand -
For me it is not necessary to write the wrist flexing since the two
hands tell it all when writing the Position of Contact...
All this is just my perspective obviously and whatever you all decide
is fine with me ;-)
I think this is a really interesting discussion - this is why I
realized that "writing what you see" is not always the same for
everyone - people see different things in the exact same picture -
Whether something hurts or not is not the point either - because people
have different body types and I cannot do half the positions we can write -
smile -
Val ;-)
--------
On Mar 29, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Would this be a clear enough writing?
Adam
On Mar 29, 2013, at 12:13 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:
Hi Maria, Erika,Adam, Valerie...
The reason that I feel
uncomfortable with the spelling of this sign is just as Erika explains:
“Maybe it's because the wrist of the right hand has to
flex so much to allow the hand to rest in the palm of the left? “
That`s it and it is independent of DGS – smile.
Reading your sign my brain suggests to experiment with
one of these variations:
Left hand indicating the ground, right hand indicating
the tower (Dharahara) -
[log in to unmask]" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes>
(I would feel much more comfortable with
the left hand palm down ( but that is not the point. It is not up to me to
discuss signs but only to discuss spelling – I know smile!)
[log in to unmask]" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes>
[log in to unmask]" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes>
Well if you write a “rest” one hand upon another I
expect that I can perform that. In this case you cannot unless you rest the
lower arm on the palm of the left hand holding the right hand at 90°.
(That hurts)
[log in to unmask]" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes>
What we do in these cases is what Adam explained: We
simply accept and tell our brain to interpret this spelling if it shows up
another time to be interpreted as what you see on Erikas foto.
I myself love to discuss spelling and to ask myself
wether this or that spelling should be chosen.
Sometimes I have my doubts immediately – for example
when reading the first attempt of Claudia to write Paris – wow next message she
shows up to change handorientation – well done!! Another example is the
spelling of Sao Paulo palm facing the signer...
[log in to unmask]" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes>
In this case of Kathmandu – Adam is right – it hurts
if I try to sign it with this extreme bend and I would be eager to
videotape 10 signers in Kathmandu – how many of them would rest the back of the
right hand on the palm of the left hand – but just bending the index up – or
something like this in between the two spellings ;-)
So to anwer your question Maria – in my first contact
with Erikas spelling I wanted the right hand with index straight
upward... and that is impossible.
Thanks Maria for your question.
Stefan
Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write
Sign Languages [mailto:SW-[log in to unmask]] Im
Auftrag von Erika
Hoffmann-Dilloway
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. März 2013 18:25
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: Erika's SignWriting..
Stefan - would that have helped?
Happy Easter to you too Maria! I was actually just eating a Cadbury
Cream Egg while reading your message...
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:13 PM, MARIA GALEA <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Yes that could be it..perhaps if the B-Hand hand is written diagonally
it
might read more 'smoothly'? see attached.
oh and before I go a BIG HAPPY EASTER Erika and EVERYONE else on the
List..enjoy your Easter Eggs and naturally your loved ones.
maria
> Maybe it's because the wrist of the right hand has to flex so much to
> allow
> the hand to rest in the palm of the left? Maybe that extreme bend is not
> as
> phonologically common in, say, DGS?
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:51 PM, MARIA GALEA
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> Stefan,
>> I could read Erika's writing perfectly, without the photo. I don't
>> understand why you claimed that the SignWriting couldn't be performed.
>> Maria
>>
>>
>> > Here's a photo of the sign. How would you suggest I write it.
Scribing
>> has
>> > never been my strong suit :)
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Stefan W�hrmann <
>> > [log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Erika, ****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> well I cannot perform that ;-( although I have an idea
what you want
>> to
>> >> show � but right hand up there is the horizontal line of hand
and
>> lower
>> >> arm - nothing that can be rest on the left palm ???****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> Stefan****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> *Von:* SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:
>> >> [log in to unmask]]
*Im Auftrag von *Erika
>> >> Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 28. M�rz 2013 18:07
>> >>
>> >> *An:* [log in to unmask]
>> >> *Betreff:* Re: Signs for Cities and States - can you write
the name
>> of
>> >> YOUR city and post to the List?
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> Yes, the right hand comes to rest on top of the palm of the
left.
>> Maybe
>> >> I
>> >> should just have shown them already in contact?****
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Stefan W�hrmann <
>> >> [log in to unmask]>
wrote:****
>> >>
>> >> Hi Erika, ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> can you explain Kathmandu: ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> left flat hand palm up fingers to the right ( no problem)****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> right hand Index � Hand � palm facing the signer moving
down - mh
>> �
>> >> how to get the touch between the two hands � right hand
on top of
>> the
>> >> left
>> >> hand ?? ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Stefan ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> *Von:* SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:
>> >> [log in to unmask]]
*Im Auftrag von *Erika
>> >> Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 28. M�rz 2013 17:18****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *An:* [log in to unmask]
>> >> *Betreff:* Re: Signs for Cities and States - can you write
the name
>> of
>> >> YOUR city and post to the List?****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> I don't know ASL, so I don't know a sign for Detroit, Ann
Arbor, or
>> >> Oberlin (my US places).****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So I'm posting the sign for Kathmandu, the city where I
learned to
>> sign!
>> >> *
>> >> ***
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> I am a West Coaster, and I must admit that people get East
Coast city
>> >> signs mixed up along with our own city signs. But this is how
I
>> >> personally
>> >> sign the 4 commonly confused "B" cities, since I am
very picky and
>> have
>> >> been known to correct people at times. ;-) It seems to match
what you
>> >> sign,
>> >> Kim.****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Boston, Massachusetts****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Baltimore, Massachusetts****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Berkeley, California****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Burbank, California****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Adam****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 28, 2013, at 8:23 AM, Kimberley Shaw wrote:****
>> >>
>> >> ** **
>> >>
>> >> Hi everyone:
>> >> those of us in Boston, Massachusetts sign it thus:
>> >> ****
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> and refer to Berkeley, CA thus:
>> >>
>> >> But some of my signing friends tell me that when you're on
the West
>> >> Coast,
>> >> it's the other way around!
>> >> Best,
>> >> Kim from Boston****
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Valerie Sutton
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> wrote:****
>> >>
>> >> SignWriting List****
>> >>
>> >> March 28, 2013****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> NAMES OF CITIES and STATES Around the World****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Thank you, Ingvild, Charles and Stefan for your signs!****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> I would suggest that you add your signs to the International
Sign
>> >> Dictionary online:****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> SignPuddle for International Signs Dictionary****
>> >>
>> >> http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/index.php?ui=1&sgn=35****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> I just copied mine for La Jolla, California from the ASL
Dictionary
>> to
>> >> the
>> >> International Dictionary, and I hope you can do the same for
your
>> signs
>> >> too�
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> And I hope more names of cities, states, countries and other
>> >> international
>> >> signs can be added too�****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Here is what we have so far�and I really like all four
spellings!
>> Thanks
>> >> to you all�****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> Val ;-)****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >> ****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> >> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>> >> Oberlin College ****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> >> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>> >> Oberlin College ****
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
>> > Assistant Professor of Anthropology
>> > Oberlin College
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
> Oberlin College
>
--
Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
Oberlin College
[log in to unmask]" name="Dharahara 1.png"
apple-width=yes apple-height=yes>
[log in to unmask]" name="Dharahara 3.png"
apple-width=yes apple-height=yes>
[log in to unmask]"
name="Dharahara 2.png" apple-width=yes apple-height=yes>
[log in to unmask]" name=Kathmandu.png apple-width=yes
apple-height=yes>