I would agree with this spelling to show the progression of the sign outward as the mouth changes, but something seems awkward as I can't read the sign as you write it. I would tend to stack the heads or show the second head after the first pair of hands and before the final reverse hands. I read down in order. I don't like to see signs getting so wide they can't fit in a box.

Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
Clear writing moves business forward.

--- On Wed, 4/10/13, Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: AW: AW: Writing Non Manual Signals
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, April 10, 2013, 6:42 PM

Hi Cherie,


well – in this case – no problem you would not write „finish“ but „fsh“


[log in to unmask]" height="96" width="172">




All best









Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Cherie Wren
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2013 00:34
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: AW: Writing Non Manual Signals


In ASL there is a specific lexical mouth morpheme that goes with the sign FINISH.  It looks more like "fsh" than the full formal English word.  ASL does not mouth the English words, it uses the mouth for other grammatical purposes...




From: Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:15 PM
Subject: AW: Writing Non Manual Signals


Hi Natasha, Adam, Erika and friends,


well you know that I am working for more than a decade on developing/inventing  a symbolset to describe what the mouth, the lips, the tongue are doing while performing movement as if somebody is speaking—I call this kind of symbols “Mundbilder”  So this has nothing to do with sound but only with kind of lipreading –


The spelling depends on your focus. If you want to really understand exactly what the mouth is doing I would transcribe the complete set of Mundbilder that represents the “pronouncing” of “finish”


[log in to unmask]" height="122" width="150">



If you just want to support the reader – who already knows what is going on looking at the movement of the hands. And if you just want to give a hint that there is a performance coming from the mouth as well – the informed reader will be satisfied just to read the beginning ...


In this case I would write the sign “finish” this way  --  




[log in to unmask]" height="90" width="172">











Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. April 2013 18:58
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: Writing Non Manual Signals


Yes, I'm sure he'll chime in, but I'm sure Stefan will be able to provide some insight, as someone who regularly writes signs with multiple mouth movements distributed across linked head symbols.


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> wrote:

If that is the writing that you were talking about, that is one possibility of how to write it. I would find myself trying to make it so that the mouth movements be written with one face, but I agree with you that that isn't really possible in this case. 


If I were to write this vertically, I would probably see what it looks like with the heads stacked on top of each other because I find that vertically writing flows better with vertical columns. Take fingerspelling for example. When the writing is vertical, it flows better to have the fingerspelling vertical as well.


Now if this were just by itself or with horizontal writing, I might choice to write it as you did. I think the only difference would be that I would overlap the face circles more, creating a Venn Diagram feel. ;-) That is actually how Stefan writes, which I think has a lot of merit to it.




On Apr 10, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Adam Frost wrote:


I didn't see an attachment, but I found this in SignPuddle. Is this what you meant?




On Apr 10, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Natasha Escalada-Westland wrote:


Hi! I'm working on a presentation about Non Manual Signals, particularly mouth morphemes, and want to know if writing a mouth movement that changes during the course of one sign as a series of connected heads is acceptable. I've attached an example of the ASL sign for FINISH, as it appears in the phrase FINISH EXPERIENCE (to have experienced a particular activity). Thanks, Natasha Escalada-Westland



Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
Oberlin College