SignWriting List
April 13, 2013

Thank you for this message Stefan - yes I can imagine you tried everything - including writing just the symbols for the mouth without any head circles…this looks very funny, doesn't it?!! I just tried it and got a good giggle:

but actually - reading is a funny thing - after looking at it a little while I started to get used to it - it is charming in a way too -

how you choose to write is fine and I am enjoying seeing all the possibilities -

Val ;-)


On Apr 13, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hello sw-friends,
well – hm –I follow this discussion with interest.
It is as Valerie mentioned several times before. Feel free to write what you want to. ...
If you take a look at the German SignPuddle you will understand that German SignLanguage (DGS) is different from ASL. The information coming from the mouth is very important. That is the reason that I defined the meaning of several “mouthgesture –symbols”  And as you may know Fernando in Brazil writes these symbols the same way.
I prefer to write the headcircles from left to write – no matter what the direcetion of writing is (top down or horizontally) –
I experimented myself a lot with different kinds of Mundbildern. I even tried out mouthsymbols without any headcircles !!!!   In the end I feel most comfortable with overlapping headcircles and one Mundbild within one headcircle.  
Just my two cents,

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Adam Frost
esendet: Samstag, 13. April 2013 23:30
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: Writing Non Manual Signals
I agree that having the mouth symbols stacked on top of each other like that does see odd, but maybe that would be just fine enough for reading without taking up so much space to have multiple head circles. I think it is something worth experimenting with to see if it would work alright or not.
On Apr 13, 2013, at 1:44 PM, KJ Boal wrote:

Hi everyone,
Having both mouth symbols in one head symbol is an interesting idea, but I personally didn’t care for it.  The top mouth looked like a moustache to me.  I did like the other two writings; but if I had to pick one it would be Adam’s, just because of the way he used the top-off head to stack the head symbols.  Both ending mouths made sense to me.
Just my two cents,
From: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Valerie Sutton
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Writing Non Manual Signals
SignWriting List
April 13, 2013
Hi Natasha and Adam and Stefan and all…
I like all the methods shown - and of course your work with Mouth Movements, Stefan is truly wonderful … 
Regarding writing down in vertical columns, I agree that the feeling of the changing mouth movements feels like it should be written down, since the reading of the entire document is going down…and likewise, when reading a document from left to right, writing the changing facial expressions from left to right makes sense for the reading direction…
I like Natasha's writing of the sign for FINISH and Adam's too…it is true that when we use the Head symbol with the top off the top of the head, it gives us a way to place one face over the other in an interesting stack - to find that symbol, go to the Heads, and under the first group in Heads is a Head Symbol that does not have the top on, so we can stack more facial features into one Head symbol…Adam used that to superimpose one head on the other in his example below…
And all the Facial Expressions are listed on this page as Adam said:
 - just click on the Group name and it will list all the facial expression and head symbols with names and ID numbers...
Now, below I have placed an idea...this is only an experiment - I have never shared this with anyone before, but what about the idea of stacking mouth symbols within one head symbol? It may look ridiculous and I will not mind if you tell me so! (smile)…take a look at this idea attached…the Head Circle without the top on it, would be a requirement so we know we are stacking Facial features…we would know that those are two Mouth Positions stacked within one Head Circle, because the top of the Head circle is not there - this would only work for two positions or maybe three at the most -