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SignWriting List
May 29, 2013

Hi Charles and Jonathan and Adam -

Your feedback has a good point, Charles, and later today I will ask Adam about it too - Over time, especially for page numbers at the bottom of document pages, we found that the movement symbols could be avoided and we read the numbers really well, either from left to right or from top to bottom…

But of course you are right …how could that not be confused with a left and right hand side by side doing two different positions?

So I will wait for Adam's thoughts about this -

Essentially what is happening for us is that as we write thicker and thicker books, some as thick as 600 pages of full SignWriting text, the writing of some signs is simplifying…the SignSpellings are not as detailed and yet we are reading the signs well - so these issues are fascinating the way we write a lot more detail in the beginning and then over time the writing simplifies -

So the discussion will continue in the next few days - Today is a bit busy here so it may take time but we look forward to the discussion ;-)

Val ;-)

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On May 29, 2013, at 11:40 AM, Charles Butler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Feedback, as a 10 (fist) has no handedness in this rotation, how can one presume that this is a one-handed sign when one only sees it in isolation.

For me, without the rotation, I can't be sure that it is not a left-handed 10 and a right-handed 6.

Is it solely the closeness of the handshapes?


Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.

From: Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Honduran numbers 11 through 19

SignWriting List
May 29, 2013

Hello Jonathan and Adam!

Thank you, Jonathan, for your postings and questions, and thank you, Adam for this excellent feedback…

I agree with Adam, and could not have explained it better - this is really good to see the different possible ways of writing the same sign.

The third and fourth examples that Adam shows, without rotation symbols, but just showing the positions, is easier to read for many people…

Simple writing is a wonderful thing…Years ago we used to write the ASL numbers with more symbols, but now we tend to just write positions…

Also, Jonathan, it appears that your export/import from SignWriter Studio to SignPuddle came in as SignText documents, rather than individual signs as if they were written in SignMaker, so the SignWriter Studio program seems to be exporting and importing text documents even when they are dictionary entries? Something to think about from a programming perspective -

I will look at the other signs too later today -

Thanks for posting questions to the List - keep posting as much as you need to!

Val ;-)

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On May 29, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I couldn't view your attachments, but I was able to look in SignPuddle and find what you were referring to. I wrote 11 and 16 with a could of examples each. The first is how I would positions the symbols with the one that you had written with respect to the movement arrows. Even though the rotation arrows mean no traveling, the beginning and ending hands should be placed at the beginning and ending of the arrow as best as can be done. The second example is the same thing except I use a different movement symbol which makes it so that the beginning and ending read left to right. Since the movements are both the same, I have found that it is easier for people who are used to reading from left to right to read. The last two examples are using the idea of "fingerspelling" in that the change in palm orientation and handshape are enough to know what the in-between movements are. The first one is for horizontal writing and the last one is for vertical writing. I personally like the last example best. ;-)