Long-term, DELEGS or equivalent is a great interactive keyboard, but I'm looking for keyboarding actual glyphs, and be able to index by those glyphs as the signpuddle does. For my research, signpuddle is the only way that I can research by handshape using the "frequency" button to go through all the signs systematically. It's slow work, but it will be clear when I'm done.

Thank you all.
Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
Clear writing moves business forward.

From: Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: AW: typing program

SignWriting List
May 5, 2013

Of course I agree, Stefan!

Charles wrote a message today saying he wanted a way to type on a keyboard, and SignPuddle is a drag-and-drop entry system, and it is online, and in Brazil I suspect Charles is having trouble with his internet connection?… SignPuddle and DELEGS are quite dependent on the internet, except for our PersonalPuddle and PocketPuddle…Do you have an offline version of DELEGS?

So I was just trying to give him alternatives -

Of course I personally use the modern software because I too need the modern features -

The typing input program that comes in SignWriter DOS is not available, however, in SignPuddle right now - maybe someday!

Val ;-)


On May 5, 2013, at 1:02 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi Valerie, Charles and friends,
is it true that you recommend to install the DOS Box in order to type documents with the good old SignWriter Dos Programm –
I do not understand. There will still be problems with printing and compared to our new software it is pretty diificult for newcomers...
I would like to invite all of you to use the given database of the SignPuddle that are already compatible with our Delegs-Software –
Within seconds you can do all the things you are dreaming of – write a “searchword” look for the alternatives in your SignPuddle – dictionary, write sentences, documents,  - write ASL or signed English, add a translation – create a PDF,  offer to the learner PDF – prints – save these PDF documents on your computer...
In order to create bilingual documents there is no better tool at the moment. Well some of you would prefer writing in columns. For the porpose to bridge spoken language and Sign Language – to improve literacy in deaf children - I prefer very much the horizontal way... smile. That should not be a big problem for a person who really wants to express his concepts in Sign Language and Spoken Language.
Within my lessons it is a blessing and a big difference compared with the time before “Delegs”. Hopfefully we will be able in the future to improve our Editor so that the  writer should be able to change, rewrite a given sign within “delegs”  or to create a new sign starting from the beginning....
But so far you can add your entries to the SignPuddle dictionary and over night you will be able to write your new document with these new signs.
Feel free to play around and to get a feeling ... it is really a wonderful program. Thank you so much to our software-team - ;-))) It is amazing to see what they are able to do in order to support all the people who are interested to bridge the two worlds...  
Any questions... do not hesitate to ask...
All best and a good start for the coming week

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. Mai 2013 20:15
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: typing pro
SignWriting List
May 5, 2013
To use SignWriter DOS on any computer, download this program:
Download DOSBox
Install it. Then, download SignWriter DOS:
Download SignWriter DOS:
Install SignWriter DOS inside DOSBox. If you need help, ask questions here on the SignWriting List, and I will help you.
I use SignWriter DOS several times a week - did you all know that? Why? To access old documents and dictionaries - why not?
So the world has not stopped - we can still use old software!!
The reason I do not use SignWriter DOS for new documents however, is because I want to use the ISWA 2010, and I want to write in vertical columns, and I want to use SVG etc etc etc - so that is why I use SignPuddle for my own new documents -
But SignWriter DOS is very much alive and well today in 2013 thanks to DOSBox!
Val ;-)
On May 5, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

SignWriting List
May 5, 2013
Hello everyone -
All your points are well taken and no arguments with anything - And thank you to Claudia and Italy for developing your own software - that is terrific!
And I LOVE your work, Claudia, and wish we could see you this summer….
Meanwhile I guess you may not realize that the PocketPuddle is available as desktop software called the PersonalPuddle, that can be downloaded and you can work WITHOUT the internet in your own private SignPuddle database…
Then, after you have created your own private Puddle files without any connection to the internet, later, you can connect to the internet and upload your files into SignPuddle Online. We have had that software for years now, and you can read about it here:
Now, I realize you probably do not have the money to purchase it…Because we also have the free SignPuddle Online I was hoping to help pay Steve a little, for all his hard work, and I am an unpaid volunteer to our non-profit organization, however, recently I started getting Disability payments, so I could donate your payment for the PersonalPuddle, Charles, to our non-profit, which can then help Steve, and I will donate the copy to you so you can work with the PersonalPuddle offline…
And if other people want a donated copy of the PersonalPuddle I will do my best to help you - Please write to tell me...
Meanwhile it helps the world if you can write online, because then we all benefit from your online databases…
Regarding keystrokes and software…you can still use SignWriter DOS if you want to…on modern computers…both Windows and Macintosh can use SignWriter DOS right now, using another program called DOSBox. If you prefer that, I can help you do that.
Also, Jonathan Duncan's SignWriterStudio software has keystrokes of a different kind - I like SignWriter Studio for Windows. It is Desktop software and also online…
And then there is the Italian software - so we really are blessed - and then DELEGS in Germany…we are so lucky!
Regarding SignPuddle, Steve is coming out with a new version in time that will have a new way of handling databases and will also have a typing program specifically for fingerspelling which is sorely needed - and it has a way to highlight SignWriting text, and copy and paste it elsewhere etc...
And why is Steve's encoding good? Because we will soon have a seamless way of writing Wikipedia articles that will move us onto the official Wikipedia site … it is all coming in around 6 months -
So much more to tell you - smile -
Meanwhile, bravo to all those who write by hand! That is the way SignWriting started - for ten years we did not have any computerization - everything was by hand - and proud of it!
I get frustrated when I hear people say that we can only do SignWriting by computer - they think we cannot write by hand - obviously that is not the case… smile…
Thanks to everyone for all you are doing -
Val ;-)
On May 5, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Charles Butler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Thank both you and Kim for underlining how strongly we need to go back before we go forward. When I was in Brazil in 2000 I was able to enter a sign with a typing program, save it to the dictionary and retrieve it later with a few keystrokes. There were pages on pages of keystrokes that the project put together to aid in entry and retrieval. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who preferred the system created for their own languages and interactive with others. Although the ASCII breakthrough is great, what does that mean practically. Will I be able to go back to "highlighting an English alphabet word", "changing that to fingerspelling" and "finding and replacing with a chosen sign" a given English phrase with ASL or LIBRAS or any other sign language? Right now, I see the "save the code into an interactive database". Well, what happens if that database is NOT on my computer, is only available on a netserver which on that day happens to be down and I'm teaching in a public school.
That is a critical need, and it is very frustrating. We need a PocketPuddle that is retrievable as a database.
Charles Butler
[log in to unmask]
Clear writing moves business forward.

From: Claudia S. Bianchini <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: typing program
In Italy, Fabrizio Borgia (univ. "Sapienza" of Rome 1), one of my "favorites collaborators", is working on an OCR system for SW for his PhD Thesis. When he will finish we can handwrite SW, scan it and obtain a digital version unloadable in the puddle. With Fabrizio we also develop new software (called SWift) for typing SW, in my opinion is really faster than SignMaker. I have to ask him when our SWift will be available for everyone. But you can have an overview in the last chapter of my PhD thesis and in some of our articles (available here: http://www.csbianchini.com/index.php/liste-commentee-des-publications)
2013/5/5 Kimberley Shaw <[log in to unmask]>
You said it, Charles!
That's why so many of my SW texts exist in handwritten -- but not yet
"typeset" -- drafts.
Kim from Boston

On 5/5/13, Charles Butler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Having been a part of the SignWriting community for more than 30 years, i am
> somewhat concerned that the usefulness of a typing program has been lost.
> When computers were first introduced to signwriting, I went to New York City
> for a demonstration of program on the AppleIIe which worked almost
> magically.
> I could start with an English sentence, with a highlight of a mouse change
> that sentence to ASL fingerspelling, and then go through and word by word
> replace English words with ASL signs and then begin moving them around to
> show the changes into ASL grammar.
> I can't do that now. Entry into the SW puddle is slow, painstaking, and is
> not given to the speed of typing which is going to be needed if SW is ever
> going to be an everyday writing system on a computer.
> What ever happened to the approach of typing, not moving a mouse, to
> retrieve a handshape, rotate it, add facial expressions, and think like a
> signer not digging through a mouse-retrieval system to a shape buried under
> 5 layers of clicking?
> With the change to your new coding system, that becomes even less
> transparent. It may be great for programmers but for the layperson it has
> become frustrating and trying to demo a program in a public school system is
> not one I would want to do now.
> SignWriting as handwriting is still very useful, but even with my dictionary
> program, I can't just "retrieve" an entry. A relational database would have
> to be tied to every piece of writing, and that gets very cumbersome. What
> happens if the net goes down, there goes the writing.
> Charles Butler
> [log in to unmask]
> 240-764-5748
> Clear writing moves business forward.

Claudia S. Bianchini, PhD
A.T.E.R. Licence SDL-LSF @ Univ. Poitiers (France)