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Thanks Charles! On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:13 PM, Charles Butler <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > The transcription by multiple speakers would be write up the line of some > NIST programs that are written to transcribe multiple speakers. If they > were adapted to electrodes on people's hands like Valerie's black and white > gloves, and with careful programming tied to Sign Writing, one could > transcribe multiple conversations. You still need a large sign library to > ensure correct language, but it could be done and a great idea for a > national grant. > > > Charles Butler > [log in to unmask] > 240-764-5748 > Clear writing moves business forward. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* André L <[log in to unmask]> > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:04 PM > *Subject:* receptive/expressive for chat littérature and poetry > > Hello Erika, > > let us imagine the future ... > > Let us think about chat, litterature, poetry... > > I would have a software like Chineese that allows selecting international > sign language and ASL pictograms very fast with most common words displayed > after a few clicks. Sign writting would be fast. We could even sign in > front of the camera and get a transcript by Microsoft (it is coming!). > > I would chat with you... > My text would appear to me from the expressive perspective but your > answer would be displayed receptively to me in my browser. > > I would read a book with intense emotions written expressively by the > narrator to make me feel in the shoes of the character. Then comes the > mean character, whom threatens my character that I read receptively. There > would be a tendency to make mean character left handed (even with a scar on > a hand). Until the identity of the mean character is known, no sign would > display a face... > > Other narrators may write in the receptive perspective to keep a distance > from the reader, example an official report. > > Theater may be written from the perspective of each actor, all adapted > through a software. Signs would point toward left, right or the front > depending on whom talks to whom. That would apply to the transcript of a > conference with several speakers. > > I would have friend using their own signwritting fonts, more fancy, with > smooter edges, a wedding ring or a watch embedded in the signs to make them > more personnal. Some fonts would be more like real hands. Just like > smileys but for signs... > > I would prefer to read my sign writting texts on my i-pad. I would swap > the whole text to left handed because I am left handed. I would swapt the > whole text from a receptive perspective because that would be our way in my > country for some reason. The view from above could be selected for a > character like Spiderman... > > Poetry would swap between left-right, expressive-receptive, even top view > to exploit shapes of the signs. The arab calligraphy use geometry > sometimes... > > In French we had a lot of writters and poets that explored how far > language itself can go (beyond the meaning itself). > > if something is possible given time, eventually somebody will do it (or > did it). Particularly artists... > > André Lemyre > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 21:23:00 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: one more receptive/expressive question > To: [log in to unmask] > > Yes, the visual reversal is different and really interesting! > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 22, 2013, at 9:11 PM, "Valerie Sutton" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > SignWriting List > August 22, 2013 > > But in spoken language, you do not have to switch right side with left > side - > > In spoken language, just because you don't agree with what is being said, > it does not mean that you are hearing a scratchy voice versus a high voice > versus a low voice when reading the concepts that you disagree with - > > But this is exactly why another research lab wanted to research the > amazing SignWriting phenomena of the "ability" to write receptive and > expressive - > > There is no way in the English alphabet to physically right the high tones > or the low tones or the scratching tones or the screaming tones - except > for of course some tonal languages perhaps - smile - but that is not > English - > > So once again, I think the production of sound of an excited sentence does > not mean we are writing the exact tone of the original writer - the thinker > who is reading it puts those excited tones into it I think - and that for > me seems to be expressive - > > Well - I think we need a new research grant to research this with MRI > equipment! > > I only know that Deaf writers who were signing as their first language, > who were skilled in SignWriting for 4 years, requested Expressive because > they wanted it - smile - and I followed their lead ;-) > > Val ;-) > > ------- > > > > On Aug 22, 2013, at 5:09 PM, Erika <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > I take your point Val, though I think that if we include social, > emotional, contextual etc signification - as opposed to just reference - > the sound of the voice or qualities of signing can add lots of meaning. > I also think that it may be possible to read written spoken language > receptively - for example, if a person feels alienated from the type of > text (suppose someone reading in a language they understand but don't > identify with, or someone reading an authoritative legal text) might > project in their head a voice that isn't their own. I sometimes ask > students this question, whether they hear their own voice internally when > they read, and the answers can vary according to the student's identity in > relation to what they are reading. > Does that make sense? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 22, 2013, at 7:58 PM, "Valerie Sutton" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > SignWriting List > August 22, 2013 > > Yes, I agree, thank you, Ingvild, for sharing this - This is a good story > to remember...Reading appears to be expressive, whether your read out loud, > or hear your own voice in silence while you read, or read without hearing > anything…it is still expressive, because you are internalizing the thoughts > for meaning, as if they are your own - You are not hearing someone else's > voice - because there is no way you could know what the original author > sounded like, nor is the sound of someone else's voice the point of the > message - How someone else signs something (produces the movements) is not > the point either, if you are reading for "meaning" - > > Val ;-) > > ---- > > > On Aug 22, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Ah, that is an interesting way of thinking about expressive/receptive > reading for spoken language! > Thanks Ingvild! > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Ingvild Roald <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > On an off-note: St Augustin, bishop in Hippo, North Africa ca 400, > commented astonished that he had heard that some people actually read > without using their voice (if I remember my facts correctly. It definitely > was someone famous and around that time). So it seems he and most other > people who were able read did so expressively ... > > Ingvild > > ------------------------------ > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 14:49:25 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: one more receptive/expressive question > To: [log in to unmask] > > Thank you Valerie and Cherie for your interesting replies! > > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Cherie Wren <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > If I can't immediately read a sign, I will try to sign it 'out loud'. If > I am reading receptive, I get all confused, because it doesn't feel right. > > cherie > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway <[log in to unmask]> > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:54 AM > > *Subject:* one more receptive/expressive question > > Hi again! Thanks to all who responded to my earlier question - such > helpful responses! I'll be sure to keep you all updated about the paper. > I noticed something in your replies that made me think of an additional > question: most of you talked about the process of writing and how > expressive/receptive affects that process. Do any of you have any thoughts > on how the choice affects reading? For example, when you read something > written expressively, do you think that it makes you experience the writing > differently? Are you more likely to sign it "out loud" (physically perform > the signs in whole or in part while signing)? To notice spelling or writing > choices that would differ from your own? Does putting yourself in the > writer's shoes make you relate to them more? > Thanks! > Erika > > > -- > Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > Oberlin College > > > > > > -- > Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > Oberlin College > > > > > -- > Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > Oberlin College > > > > > > -- Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway Assistant Professor of Anthropology Oberlin College