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Hi everyone,

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback. I'll find out if what Adam and
Sutthikuhn suggested can be used in SooSL.

Yes, I think an add-on is a great approach for new handshapes. Tim, is it
possible for a SignWriting add-on to work with SooSL or for me to add these
handshapes myself?

Adam, the research is detailed and none of the existing handshapes are
close enough. I've used 'close enough' in other instances.

Yes, the second handshape is the R hand on a hinge. I have it in my data
with both the thumb extended at the side and on the ring and baby fingers.

Regards,
Keren.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 4:08 PM SW-L automatic digest system <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> There are 4 messages totaling 17206 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics in this special issue:
>
>   1. Additional Handshapes (4)
>
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton
> SignWriting List moderator
> [log in to unmask]
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
> [log in to unmask]
>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:12:24 -0700
> From:    Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Additional Handshapes
>
> SignWriting List
> October 26, 2021
>
> Hello SW List members -
> I received this message today (see below).
>
> Anyone who can help…. can you help us find the closest handshapes we
> already have, that could be used to create signs with these handshapes? If
> we can find ones that are already in the ISWA 2010 that are close, then
> maybe we can teach how to construct what is needed? I appreciate your help
> everyone -
>
> Val ;-)
>
> -------------
>
> > On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Ms Sutton,
>
> I am using SooSL for my research project and I noticed there are some
> handshapes that are not included. I contacted Tim Grove. He said that the
> handshapes are from SignWriting and I can contact SignWriting directly
> about adding handshapes. I would like to know if new handshapes will be
> added in the near future and if it is possible to add the 2 handshapes in
> the attached pictures so that they can be included in SooSL. The second one
> which may be difficult to identify is an index middle cross hinge, thumb
> side.
>
>
> Regards,
> Keren Cumberbatch.
>
>
>
> ——————
>
> > On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Valerie,
> >
> > Yes, reposting it on the list is fine.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Keren.
>
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton
> SignWriting List moderator
> [log in to unmask]
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
> [log in to unmask]
>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 27 Oct 2021 00:49:42 +0700
> From:    Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Additional Handshapes
>
> Hi Valerie and SWList members,
>
> I suppose that the signs for the two handshapes you've mentioned could be
> written as follows:
>
> [image: sign (2).png]
>
> [image: sign (14).png]
> Sutthikhun
>
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 00:13, Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > SignWriting List
> > October 26, 2021
> >
> > Hello SW List members -
> > I received this message today (see below).
> >
> > Anyone who can help…. can you help us find the closest handshapes we
> > already have, that could be used to create signs with these handshapes?
> If
> > we can find ones that are already in the ISWA 2010 that are close, then
> > maybe we can teach how to construct what is needed? I appreciate your
> help
> > everyone -
> >
> > Val ;-)
> >
> > -------------
> >
> > On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Ms Sutton,
> >
> > I am using SooSL for my research project and I noticed there are
> > some handshapes that are not included. I contacted Tim Grove. He said
> that
> > the handshapes are from SignWriting and I can contact SignWriting
> directly
> > about adding handshapes. I would like to know if new handshapes will be
> > added in the near future and if it is possible to add the 2 handshapes in
> > the attached pictures so that they can be included in SooSL. The second
> one
> > which may be difficult to identify is an index middle cross hinge, thumb
> > side.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Keren Cumberbatch.
> >
> >
> >
> > ——————
> >
> > On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Valerie,
> >
> > Yes, reposting it on the list is fine.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Keren.
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> >
> > SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> >
> > Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> > http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> >
> > Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> > http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> >
>
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton
> SignWriting List moderator
> [log in to unmask]
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
> [log in to unmask]
>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:59:33 -0700
> From:    Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Additional Handshapes
>
> The first one is actually what I was thinking. This is a construction of
> two symbols, correct? BaseSymbol 1 & BaseSymbol 258?
>
>  +
>
> The second one actually has the index and middle fingers crossing in
> addition to what your handshape has. I found that this handshape is the
> closest, but the thumb is not extended to the side.
>
>
>
> If you wanted to have the thumb to the side, the handshape would have to
> be constructed completely. I am not sure what would constitute as close
> enough for this person’s purposes because it seems they are doing some
> detailed research. At least that is my guess.
>
>
> Adam
>
> > On Oct 26, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Valerie and SWList members,
> >
> > I suppose that the signs for the two handshapes you've mentioned could
> be written as follows:
> >
> > <sign (2).png>
> >
> > <sign (14).png>
> > Sutthikhun
> >
> > On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 00:13, Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> > SignWriting List
> > October 26, 2021
> >
> > Hello SW List members -
> > I received this message today (see below).
> >
> > Anyone who can help…. can you help us find the closest handshapes we
> already have, that could be used to create signs with these handshapes? If
> we can find ones that are already in the ISWA 2010 that are close, then
> maybe we can teach how to construct what is needed? I appreciate your help
> everyone -
> >
> > Val ;-)
> >
> > -------------
> >
> >> On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Ms Sutton,
> >
> > I am using SooSL for my research project and I noticed there are some
> handshapes that are not included. I contacted Tim Grove. He said that the
> handshapes are from SignWriting and I can contact SignWriting directly
> about adding handshapes. I would like to know if new handshapes will be
> added in the near future and if it is possible to add the 2 handshapes in
> the attached pictures so that they can be included in SooSL. The second one
> which may be difficult to identify is an index middle cross hinge, thumb
> side.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Keren Cumberbatch.
> >
> > <Screenshot 2021-04-10 at 12.29.59 AM.png><Screenshot 2021-10-25 at
> 8.43.42 PM.png>
> >
> >
> > ——————
> >
> >> On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello Valerie,
> >>
> >> Yes, reposting it on the list is fine.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Keren.
> > ________________________________________________
> >
> > SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> >
> > Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist <
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist>
> > Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1 <
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> >________________________________________________
> >
> > SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> >
> > Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist <
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist>
> > Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1 <
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton
> SignWriting List moderator
> [log in to unmask]
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
> [log in to unmask]
>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Tue, 26 Oct 2021 14:07:42 -0700
> From:    Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Additional Handshapes
>
> SignWriting List
> October 28, 2021
>
> First, I want to welcome a new member to our List, Keren Cumberbatch.
> Thank you, Keren, for the questions about constructing handshapes.
>
> Second, many thanks to Adam and Sutthikhun (Ae), for your help. I do so
> appreciate it.
>
> Before you joined, Keren, Adam and Sutthikhun (Ae) had already been
> discussing your handshapes in question:
>
>       .
>
> I believe we all agree on the first one:
>
> It is the thumb inside a fist, with the index finger extended. It would be
> two handshapes combined:
>
>
>
> and of course there are different palm facings. This handshape needs to be
> constructed because it is not a part of the official ISWA 2010 symbolset.
> But all the pieces are there for you. Do you know how to access and find
> those shapes in SignPuddle Online? I do not know how SooSL works with
> handshapes.
>
> The second handshape is hard to see in the photo, but Adam and Sutthikhun
> made different suggestions - You can find their earlier messages in the SW
> List Archives for today:
>
> Archive 4
> https://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
>
> From your description, “ The second one which may be difficult to identify
> is an index middle cross hinge, thumb side”, and looking at the
> suggestions, it looks like to me that it is an R hand (crossed fingers)
> angled forward, like the Letter N in ASL, but the thumb goes to the side,
> like this:
>
>
>
>
> As you can see, this is also a constructed handshape and even if you want
> to write it differently than I have posted above, we do not have it in the
> ISWA 2010 either - so both handshapes have to be constructed.
>
> So what to do about needing more handshapes in the ISWA? It would be so
> much chaos for the software developers who have already built their
> software on the current symbolset to change the current symbolset now - the
> best thing we could try, is for brave software developers to develop an
> “add-on” program that could somehow be accessed on the side, while still
> keeping the current software in tact.
>
> How do other people feel about this? Rubens Almeida and others have also
> requested more handshapes. Is there anyone who can help this issue?
>
> Val ;-)
>
>
> -----------------
>
> > On Oct 25, 2021, at 6:46 PM, K Cumberbatch <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Ms Sutton,
> >
> > I am using SooSL for my research project and I noticed there are some
> handshapes that are not included. I contacted Tim Grove. He said that the
> handshapes are from SignWriting and I can contact SignWriting directly
> about adding handshapes. I would like to know if new handshapes will be
> added in the near future and if it is possible to add the 2 handshapes in
> the attached pictures so that they can be included in SooSL. The second one
> which may be difficult to identify is an index middle cross hinge, thumb
> side.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Keren Cumberbatch.
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton
> SignWriting List moderator
> [log in to unmask]
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
> [log in to unmask]
>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of SW-L Digest - 25 Oct 2021 to 26 Oct 2021 - Special issue (#2021-136)
> ***************************************************************************
>

________________________________________________


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