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No worries. It’s easy to confuse where I was born when I generally only say where I grew up. I have done the same with other people before who are in the same situation as I am, and I should know better. Ha!
 

Adam

> On Mar 25, 2022, at 2:49 PM, Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Oh wow - my misunderstanding ;-)
> 
> Very sorry -
> 
> But you knew the people I worked with - a good group ;-)
> 
> Val ;-)
> 
> ---------
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2022, at 2:29 PM, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> 
>> I wasn’t born in California, but I grew up in that area. So yes, I did know some of those people. :-)
>> 
>> <namesign.png>
>> Adam
>> _______
> 
> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Valerie Sutton <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> SignWriting List
>>> March 25, 2022
>>> 
>>> Thank you Adam, for your explanation, and thank you Sutthikhun and AnnaGrace and Carlos and everyone -
>>> 
>>> I need a couple of hours - but a better response will come...
>>> 
>>> Ironically, I was teaching a course in SignWriting Shorthand (for classroom notetaking with interpreters to take notes for Deaf students during class in written ASL), in 1982, in Woodland Hills, California, at Los Angeles Pierce College, just around the time that Adam was born in that city. Is that right, Adam? That was 40 years ago, and later Adam knew some of the people I taught the Shorthand to…such a small world!
>>> 
>>> A wonderful stenographer (notice I call her a stenographer) was so skilled at the Shorthand (or stenography), that she started to take classroom notes in ASL for a Deaf student at CSUN -
>>> 
>>> It went amazingly well because the Deaf ASL student knew SignWriting and the stenographer re-transcribed the shorthand notes into SW Handwriting or “SW Printing” - like block letters that are written by hand but are easier to read for the reader…
>>> 
>>> There is a DanceWriting Shorthand too and I taught it in classes at the Boston Consevatory of Music’s Dance Dept from 1976-1980 Those books are available for download too - we wrote dances at speed and some of the dancers in class did real well
>>> 
>>> Val ;-)
>>> 
>>> ---------
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 25, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Adam Frost <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I wouldn’t consider handwriting and shorthand in SignWriting to be the same thing. I know that there isn’t much documentation and they aren’t very developed in general use, so that might be why the two might seem to be very similar.
>>>> 
>>>> Handwriting generally has a one-to-one correlation to block printing, which is what we typically write with on computers. There may be a few cases where one handwritten symbol can mean several block printing symbols, but those are the exceptions rather than the norm.
>>>> 
>>>> Shorthand, one the other hand, generally has several possible interpretations for which symbol(s) it correlates to. For example, a shorthand symbol might mean any number of block printing symbols with different fills and/or flips/rotations. It is also possible to have one shorthand symbol mean a collection of block printing symbols. We have seen this with the use of the timing symbols to mean the left hand mirrors the handshape and movements of the right hand as written.
>>>> 
>>>> The similarity of handwriting and shorthand is that their symbols generally only have a couple of strokes at the most. Shorthand symbols tend to be even more simplified than handwritten symbols and rarely have symbols written with more than one stroke.
>>>> 
>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>> Adam
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 25, 2022, at 1:18 PM, Ms. AnnaGrace <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The way I see it, there's block lettering, handwriting, and shorthand. Especially in the American English language.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In SignWriting, is shorthand the same as handwriting? Just wondering...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> AnnaGrace
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 3:50 PM Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> Thank you so much for your help in finding the old documents. Fortunately, you can find the scanned files without having to re-scan them all over again. This appears to be a document containing a large ASL vocabulary as well as a shorthand for each word. That's amazing!
>>>>> 
>>>>> It seems like the old shorthand is a lot different than what I expected, in that it has a number of systematic writing rules and principles to know. I'm not sure if anyone can still write this style of shorthand today, and I'm curious to see how fast it can be written.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Shorthand, as many of you know, is a writing system that allows you to take notes at a speed that is comparable to speech. Shorthands for spoken languages are usually performed by listening to the voice and taking notes by hand, but it's interesting to know that the shorthand for sign languages is performed by looking at the signers with the eyes and taking notes by hand. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does this imply that sign language stenographers will take notes without glancing at the paper? I suppose that the shorthand of DanceWriting would follow the same way. I feel that writing at a fast pace without looking at the paper is quite challenging!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sutthikhun
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 at 01:19, Ms. AnnaGrace <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> Scribble Sample on Apple iPad.mov
>>>>> If Apple could come up with this method of converting handwritten symbols (eg, the English alphabet and words), could we use this method for SignWriting? Please see the attached video, and you'll see what I mean.
>>>>> Could anyone on the SW List tell me if this is possible for SignWriting?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> AnnaGrace
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 10:14 AM Jonathan Duncan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Val,
>>>>> 
>>>>>    How did you or others envision a typewriter for SignWriting Shorthand?
>>>>> 
>>>>> <FUnRXVhH6bsvisoD.png>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/22/2022 12:09 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>>>>>> SignWriting List
>>>>>> March 22, 2022
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi SW List members -
>>>>>> It took me time to find the scanned document, but I did find it and it is now posted. This is a very old book, based on our old writing system. It was a workbook for students learning SW Shorthand, so you will find blank pages in the middle of the document for students to practice writing.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From an historic perspective, it is interesting to see how we were writing in 1982, but from a practical perspective, how we write today, in 2022, is what matters...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In 1982, we were writing Receptively, and horizontally, with symbols that were not as detailed. By 1984, there was a major change in the system, which reflects how we write today…
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So here is 1982’s shorthand….
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "SignWriting Shorthand For Sign Language Stenography", 1982, is now posted as a PDF in our SignWriting Document Archives:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs13/sw1296_SignWriting_Shorthand_For_Sign_Language_Stenography_Sutton_1982.pdf
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> <Image.png>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Pagehttp://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messageshttp://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>> 
>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>> 
>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>> 
>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>> 
>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>> 
>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>> 
>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>> 
>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>> 
>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask]
>>>> 
>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
>>>> 
>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>> 
>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> 
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>> 
>>> Valerie Sutton
>>> SignWriting List moderator
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> 
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> 
>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>> 
>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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>> 
>> ________________________________________________
>> 
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>> 
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> 
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>> 
>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>> 
> 
> <Valerie_Signature_5.jpg>
> Val ;-)
> 
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist <http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1 <http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1>

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Valerie Sutton
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